Live At DocuFest 2019

For posterity's sake, it is seven o'clock on the East Coast.
It is four o'clock on the West Coast.
It is the 5th of October in the year of our Lord 2000 and 19.
Got a lot of time to bring down the highs a little bit there.
A little bit there, makes it a little bit, a little bit bassier.
I'll biceier.
It is season 10, episode nine, that sounds much better.
505 times this voice has welcomed you to the clubhouse podcast.
We're so glad that you've checked in with us.
We are live to tape this week submitted to the vocal now network.
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This is the clubhouse podcast.
My name is Rob.
I am the executive producer of the clubhouse podcast.
And I am ready to bid adieu to Texas summer, which I will be doing tomorrow.
We are stating at full strength tonight, which we haven't done in a minute.
So let's go around the day, a sitting across from me is the,
she's going to be in the on deck circle tonight.
That's what I'm calling it.
We're not going to have waited bats or anything, but she is here.
General is here. Welcome, friend.
Hello, everyone.
So glad you could join us once again.
Working around the table clock wise is the official fact checker of sooner or
gator productions and the man that will keep me from having to talk by myself for
the next two hours.
You admit you may know him as Igboonu.
That is a mama name.
I'm Don Ford.
I'm going to call him Don Ford.
Hey, brother.
First off, it holy mackerel.
Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Don's here.
All right, doctor.
I heard a loud pop and then nothing.
OK, we're doing the video fest.
We are.
This was not there yet, but, but here's the thing here's the,
we got the cheap hot cast tomorrow night.
We do indeed tomorrow afternoon.
Well, tomorrow for me on the cell, right?
Then next week is is the regular show, indeed, which I'm willing to pay up week
number two.
Yes, you will be now.
Here's my thing.
Well, let's, let's introduce the person that you had this bet with first,
because that way he can respond to you.
He is my co-host.
He is going to make sure that we keep this thing on the rails tonight because we
are live from the Angelica Film Center in Dallas.
And we're going to talk more about why we're here tonight here in just a moment.
He is Alex.
Welcome, sir.
I'm going to come in nice and soft.
See you later.
OK, we're good.
I just didn't want to blow anybody's.
You're doing like your, your version of proud Mary.
We're starting nice and slow.
Nice.
We'll do anything nice.
OK, go ahead, Don.
OK, so I will start off with my jersey untucked for week two of four.
Yep, yep.
Now, here's the thing since it may be it's my birthday.
If he will, let me slide.
Maybe it's a, do you not know when your birthday is?
And if I could finish, do we need to get a calendar?
If I could finish, if I could finish, we're waiting on you.
Well, you keep, well, if you don't know, OK, I will on air on my birthday.
If you will, let me for go week three and four, I will cut up my Antonio,
Burz, Jersey, Brent, Antonio Brown, Jersey, on air.
No, no, you're going to do that anyway.
So you just number one, I didn't cut up a jersey.
That doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't serve us in a new way, shape a form.
That's just you trying to get out of something.
That's you trying to get out of the bed.
And you have to solve the bed.
The bed is the bed.
I know this.
These are the bedweasels.
These are the terms you agreed to.
I'll do it.
These are the terms you agreed to.
I don't, these are the terms of the bed.
But I said, hey, if Antonio Brown still played for the Steelers, that would entertain you.
Yes.
But since he doesn't play for the Steelers, that serves you just as much as it serves him.
No, no, it only serves him.
And I as the commissioner of this bed, and vetoing that particular one.
Well, that particular one.
Because I've never cut up a Steeler, Jersey, ever.
And I'd only be willing to do that.
This sounds way too hard like he's trying to convince us of something he wants.
Okay.
You have the answer.
If I had my sound board, the buzzer would have happened.
All right.
All right.
So we are here at the Angelica Film Center for DocuFest, which is part of VideoFest32.
Now the sixth year?
Is that what we're talking about?
The sixth or seventh year that we have worked with VideoFest.
This was the very first Film Festival we ever did.
Many, many, many, many moons ago.
Yep.
I've already talked to Bart.
Bart's going to make time for us later tonight.
He's in a movie.
You guys know me.
I got to go.
You got to go do you.
We have our first guest ready to join us.
She needs Don to get up so she can sit down.
And I don't even have music in the background.
So we're going to have to keep this thing moving.
Go ahead and put your headphones on so you can hear yourself.
Joining us now.
Oh, it's too loud for you.
General, you got it.
All right.
There you go.
General, I'm got you.
All right.
Go ahead and introduce yourself.
Go ahead and introduce yourself.
Hi, my name is Karen Kramer.
And I'm the filmmaker of Renegade Dreamers, a documentary that's showing here at the festival.
In 55 minutes.
Yes, it's 7 o'clock tonight, Saturday night.
So we wanted to make sure we got you on quickly so you could talk about your film.
That's great.
I was just reading about it.
I am all in on this.
I don't want you to tell our listeners about your film Renegade Dreamers coming up
to you tonight at the Angelic at 7 o'clock.
Okay, I'll give you a little background about why I made the film.
Please do.
I've always been interested in people who step out of the mainstream and try to forge their own path.
And in this country, in America, after World War II, it was a great amount of conformity.
Yeah, and climbing the corporate ladder and material consumption.
Yet there was a small group of people who rebelled against that.
And they rebelled against that by mostly two places in America,
North Beach in San Francisco and Greenwich Village in New York,
which is where I happen to be from.
And when they came to Greenwich Village, they took refuge in the coffee houses and cafes.
And they were able to put their ideas and their descent into poetry.
And they would get up on stage and they would read their poetry or not read the site.
And it was considered something very rebellious.
If you see in the film, you'll see some of the ramifications of that.
As the fifties merged into the sixties,
things became more political in America.
And also, some of the folk musicians began to take center stage in these cafes.
They joined the poets, but little by little, they became the new voice.
And they were people like Tom Paxton and Peter Poland Mary and of course Bob Dylan.
And they began to put their descent into music.
And that music really helped change some of the face of American culture.
So I wanted to make a documentary that would honor that period in those legends.
But I didn't want it to just be an nostalgic look back.
I wanted it to have some contemporary feel to it.
So I found several young people who were doing the same thing today.
They're using their spoken word and their lyrical folk music to take on some of the issues of today.
Like Black Lives Matter, Workers' Rights, Police brutality and things like that.
And I interwoke those two things in the film.
And even though the two time periods may be very, very different,
I think the intent is the same.
Absolutely.
So that's what the film is about.
It's a 70-minute film.
We've got some great people in there, both well-known and not so well-known.
Do you tell the tale in parallel or in, what's the word, chronologically?
Well, we tell the history somewhat chronologically.
We start with some scenes of the 50s.
We use Malveena Reynolds, wonderful song, Little Boxes.
And we show up.
I love that song, Little Boxes.
It's on a hilltop, Little Boxes made a tiki-taki.
My mom used to sing that to me when I was little.
Good for her.
Yeah.
I was born right on the tail end of that.
So my mom came up in that time.
So there were a lot of those songs that,
because my mother was musically inclined and she played, you know,
played guitar all the time.
That was one of the songs that I identified with.
And you said, Little Boxes, it was like lights went off.
And so we start with that.
And then the next, not the next scene, but the next historical scene
is people gathering in the coffee houses to do the poetry.
And then the next historical scene, way down the road,
is turning into the music.
And so the historical scenes are pretty much in chronological order.
Is there a moment in the film, as you look back,
that you can say, that was the moment that changed everything for me?
You mean in the making of the film or in the reality of it?
Just the reality of it.
Because you said that even though at the time of the hour,
it's completely different, the message is kind of the same.
But as you look back to, you know, you go through the beatnik period
into the free love period, into the 70s,
was there a moment during that, during the original time of that,
for you, that was a defining moment?
Gee, that's a good question.
It's a little hard to say.
That's fair.
I think one, this isn't exactly what you're talking about,
but it's a little bit, and you'll see this in the film.
There was a time when the city would not allow people to play
or sing folk music in Washington Square Park.
That's absolutely outrageous that singing became illegal.
And people fought back.
And it's very different than it was today.
People were not fighting for things at that time.
When I look at that footage, I see that as a very pivotal time.
And you talked about Grange Village in San Francisco.
It's amazing when you think of that,
the parody between the two scenes,
but how similar the basis of both of them were,
because I've studied this period a lot growing up.
And again, it's that whole history cycle thing,
that I'm very interested to see your take,
especially on the modern version of this movement,
and how it is our time to force these people
to even become a louder voice,
and a more boisterous voice,
and the technology as it weaves into that.
Do you look into the technology part of it at all?
No, I don't.
I mean, there's a lot, obviously,
that we don't cover.
Oh, absolutely.
And you only had 70 minutes.
I've been in a lot of history.
And it's not exactly quid pro quo.
I mean, you'll see somebody like young,
you show on, who is a poet,
and he's not really a protester,
but he's somebody who kind of just chucks it all
and goes out on the road.
And I love that he's the fan of Karawack
and the last time you see him,
he's walking down this beautiful road.
How long did it take you to make the documentary?
Took seven years.
Wow.
I know.
So you've really seen, I mean, if you go back,
2011, 2012, your time period
literally watches the world change.
This decade has been so much,
probably since that original time,
we've seen more change in this decade
that reflects just like that,
where you've had the 70s and the 80s
and the 90s and the odds,
but this particular decade
has literally watched the world turn.
When you started this journey,
did you expect it to wind up the way it did?
Well, there's a lot that I did not expect
when I started this journey.
I was both lucky and unlucky
that Occupy Wall Street happened
while I was filming,
and lucky because I got wonderful footage,
unlucky because, well, maybe lucky in a way,
I got completely wrapped up in that,
and for a while I just kept filming that,
thinking that might be a whole film in itself.
One of the things that really changed
was the technology.
It's very different when I started.
Oh, absolutely.
It's very different when I finished.
Yeah.
I mean, this show was in its infancy at that point,
and we're in our 10th season now,
and how much everything has changed for us.
Do you feel there's more story to tell
would you want to do another chapter to this?
Or do you feel like you've told the story you need to tell?
I feel like I've told it.
I mean, another people have told the story about the beats
and the folk singers.
Of course, you could always get into more minutia,
and people will always say to me,
gee, you didn't include Cafe Figaro or whatever.
You know, there's always things left out,
but I told the story I wanted to tell.
And that's a most important thing.
Yeah.
When you're a documentarian,
it seems like there's never going to be
that definitive story in everybody's minds.
But as long as it's the definitive story in your mind,
that's really what matters because it's your story
that you are telling.
Yes.
How many times have you shown the film before tonight?
Well, there haven't been that many showings.
We showed it at a theater in Greenwich Village for a week,
and that was part of kind of something
I had to do for the community.
Oh, absolutely.
How did that go?
I mean, it had been amazing.
It was amazing.
It was really, really amazing.
There were 35 showings in all.
Five shows a day for seven days.
Wow.
And it was wonderful.
People in the film, people had worked on the film,
friends, family.
And it showed it the Wales International Film Festival.
Unfortunately, I couldn't go because it was
during our New York screening,
but I got wonderful feedback.
And it's gotten a few awards, so.
Where's it going now after tonight?
You have anything planned for it?
Don't know.
Okay.
If you had your preference,
where would this film land?
Would you want it to have a theatrical run?
Do you think it's more aimed for something like AMC?
Or is it aimed for something like Netflix?
Where would you want to see it land?
Well, it did have that when it showed it a week in New York.
It was at a theater, and that was wonderful.
I'd love to have more of that in other cities.
I think Netflix might not take this film,
but I would love to see it really go all over.
Lots more film festivals, because they're all over the world.
And lots more digital platforms.
We haven't approached those yet.
And we're all my other films have shown a lot of museums,
and libraries, and classrooms, and conferences.
And, yes, public television.
So I think that pretty much covers everything.
Okay, not fair enough.
I want to go let you get ready for the movie,
but before you go, we have found it digital.
I'll go ahead if I may real quick.
I've been going through the website, radigatedreamers.com,
and I've been looking at some of the information.
I was fascinated before you brought it up,
seeing seven years of making this.
Did you have people that you were fascinated by at the start,
or is it that they came on gradually throughout the film?
They came on gradually.
Yeah, yeah.
With the younger people, obviously, I knew about the historic.
Yeah, they're just looking at some of the stuff you have on the website.
It is really fascinating to read, and I wish you all the best.
Oh, thank you so much.
This is really fun.
All right.
We've found this show on shameless self-promotion.
Yeah.
So before you go, go ahead and give everybody website,
social media, everything they need to know.
We get in touch with you about this film.
Okay.
You can go on our website at www.RenigateDreamers1word.com.
You can also check our Facebook page.
I don't have it exactly, but you look up Renigate Dreamers.
And there we are.
And there will be information on both of those,
how to contact me, if anybody wants to contact me.
And I love coming to show the film and speak with it.
So let me know.
And I'll be there.
Karen Kramer, Renigate Dreamers.
Thank you so much for sitting down with us.
Enjoy the festival.
That's going to show here at the Angelica here in about 45 minutes.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for hanging out with us.
You are listening to the Clubhouse Podcast.
We are live at the Angelica Film Center in Dallas.
Did you lose a channel?
I lost the left side as well.
Okay.
So we've lost a channel, but that's okay.
We're still going in stereo out.
That's the most important thing.
Okay.
Yes, ma'am.
We are here for DocuFest.
Part of video, Fest32.
Well, in to season 10, season 10 rolls on.
We already have another guest with us.
And I am going to venture out right now.
I'm going to put this out there.
Okay.
This is by a country mile.
The most decorated guest we have ever had on this show.
So will you please introduce yourself?
Get right up on the microphone.
General George Patton.
You know what?
You could make the parallel.
That is true.
Thanks very much.
Well, my films are certainly seen a lot.
I don't know if I'm the most decorated.
Chuck Workhamen joins us right now.
We could do just an hour on this stuff you've done.
Versus the stuff that you're here for.
You're doing tonight's 830.
You're doing an evening with Chuck Workhamen.
Now, if you don't, you've probably heard his name.
But anybody, first of all, that can attach themselves
to Star Wars.
You automatically have my attention.
Well, I had a small trailer company in New York.
A fellow that worked for me named Paul Hirsch,
what became an editor.
Got himself to California.
And met George Lucas.
And George Lucas hired him to become an editor.
Then when a trailer came along,
the studios were working on big trailers for that movie.
They smelled something.
They didn't know it was going to be Star Wars.
In fact, some of them didn't like it.
But they tried a bunch of big trailers.
And nobody seemed to like it.
The trailers that were being done.
So Paul said, call this guy.
I used to work for Chuck Workhamen.
He does trailers too.
And just moved to LA.
So I met with George.
And it was great.
He said, don't use the canteen.
And I said, OK.
And I didn't know what he meant.
And I had to call somebody up and say,
what do you think he meant by the canteen?
But of course, we know it's the canteen.
And the film was hardly done.
There were just two people in George's office
and a lot of toys.
But we made the trailer.
And it was great.
It kind of got me going with the trailers
and Los Angeles after I'd moved there.
And we were talking in pre-show that you are a person
that can say you were the very first person
to have something aired on a certain channel
that has its own film festival,
is a huge piece of Americana.
And can you talk a little bit about
what you did for Turner Classic Movies?
Well, in those days, there was TBS and TNT, I believe.
And Turner had just bought the MGM Library,
which was a monstrous lie.
Oh, absolutely.
And now it's owned by Warner Bros.
And he wanted to start, obviously, the channel.
It was his idea and his associates, I guess.
And so they said, let's hire this guy.
He didn't know who I was.
But fortunately, his other people worked with him did.
And to do a little montage.
And it was the 100th anniversary of film.
And for about three or four years,
there was different organizations that were kind of behind
the 100th anniversary of the film.
So they said, make a film.
And I called it the first 100 years.
And then I had to change the name because
I was also making a film for HBO called the first 100 years.
That was a feature film.
But anyway, whatever it's called, they've been
running it every week since we started.
And it was actually the first film that was on TCM.
We all went to New York, to Times Square,
and looked at it on the big jumbo tromb,
where Dave Letterman used to put a show sometimes.
It was very exciting and fun.
And everybody was watching Ted to see if he would react.
And they said, oh, we're in.
And how do you contain your emotion in a moment like that?
This is one of the biggest figures in entertainment at the time.
In 1994, if I remember correctly.
Was it that long ago?
I believe it was in 1994 to 1994.
I think it was 1994.
And this at that time is one of the biggest figures in media,
in general.
And you're staying next to him,
and he's watching something that you created,
and it affects him on that level.
You're mine at that point.
Absolutely nothing.
I'm happy that he liked it.
You know, I had worked in my early 20s
on a lot of celebrity commercials.
For some reason, I was young and I didn't care
that it was Bing Crosby or whoever it was that I was dealing with.
Muhammad Ali.
So I directed all those kind of guys.
So Ted Turner could have been the next guy that said,
was selling something.
Although I liked him.
I had a lot of respect for him.
And I had worked with Jane Fonda recently.
And he was just about to marry or just married.
So no, I wasn't thrown by that.
It does happen occasionally, but not with him.
But I was very happy that he liked it
and that it was going to work for the channel.
And they played it forever.
I never made a penny more based on that.
People thought I was going to pay it every week.
But they ran it to death.
And my name just kept coming up, which was nice.
And there were plenty of the seeds for things that come after that.
Well, sure.
I'm going to call you up.
I saw your name.
And I believe you're the first person we've ever had on this show
that has a cable ace award.
I have a cable.
For the first 100 years.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
Good for you.
Good for you, sir.
Talk about what you're expecting for tonight.
Because we're just going to be a Q&A.
Are we showing this with the Andy Warhol film?
Are you doing this two separate events?
A bar wise director of the festival.
A wonderful few and one of our favorite people.
Yeah, no, he's terrific and very smart about films.
And he had all my shorts.
And I had 20, 30 shorts that I've done that I like.
And maybe 20, 30, I hate.
But of the ones I like and that I think came out all right.
He looked at all of them.
And he picked a three or four that he wanted to show.
Nothing from the Oscars.
And I worked on many shows.
But he didn't pick anything from the Oscars.
He wanted the ones that weren't from the Oscars.
So he picked four.
And then including one about Bugs Bunny.
That I did for Warner Bros.
One of the greatest of all time.
That got me a job working for Michael Jackson.
Who looked at all my whole real and said,
I love, get me this guy that did the Bugs Bunny.
Oh, wow.
So I did three films with Michael including his last.
This is the last one.
I didn't do this.
It was a documentary.
But I worked with Kenny Artega who did.
I was doing the montages for Michael that would open the concert.
Oh, wow.
And then when he died it became the film that they showed it as memorial.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
And I like Michael.
And I, as most people who work for them did.
And so I was happy to do that.
And I'm glad that I got to do that.
And you also got to do some work for someone who is about a three-decade crush for me in one battle in the corner.
Burn it at Peters.
Burn it at Peters.
For some reason they tend to meld into the same person for me.
I don't know why.
But 1994 Oscars, she did the name of this.
Putting it together.
Putting it together.
Yeah.
They used to.
Now it's kind of a mess the Oscars.
You're absolutely right.
You agree, right?
It's a mess.
But it'll come back.
Don't worry about it.
It always comes back.
But at the time it was very well controlled with themes.
And they weren't pushed too hard.
And they just did a good job.
And maybe it was just the era.
But at any rate, the theme that year was the people behind the camera.
So, and I would use to meet with the producer of the Oscars every fall or so around September.
And he would say, what do you got?
What's in your mind?
And you have anything we'd like you to do in opening, you know, before Billy Crystal comes out or, you know, before there's a dance or whatever it would be.
And I'd always love musicals.
And I said, let's do a musical version of the Sondheim song, putting it together.
And let him rewrite it a little bit for, you know, for the movies.
So, putting it together was about putting a show together.
And so, he agreed to do that.
And then we had to find somebody to do it.
And I was suggesting Barbara Streisand, who had done a song, somewhat, to that.
And Gil Cates, the producer said, there's only one problem with that. She might say yes.
So, there's a whole, there's a lot going on in that one set right there.
So, he was a very pressing guy, this guy Gil Cates, very smart.
And so, we were looking for someone else.
And we talked to a lot of people, but I love Bernadette.
She's amazing.
Yeah. And Sondheim, you know, and worked with her a lot.
And so, she did it.
And so, it was a lot of fun for me, because I was directing a musical piece with Debbie Allen doing the choreography.
It was also amazing.
Yeah. And she was, you know, I'm sorry, she's distracting me.
Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
I don't think she's without the producer waving in real life.
She's okay.
Yeah, you got her attention when you said Debbie Allen.
She's amazing.
Yeah.
That's a point of fact.
Debbie's stuff was great in rehearsals.
She got a little bit of rap because you could only get a day or so to do the camera rehearsal in the Oscars.
So, and her stuff was always very complicated.
There was something going on in the foreground.
And it had to be covered well.
And a lot of something just didn't have time to find it.
So, unfortunately, she would get a bad rap here and there.
We all did.
We all did.
I was in a lot of fight with not a fight, but a discussion with John Stewart,
because he was making jokes about the montages, because there were so many at that time.
He said, well, they're going to have a montage of montages running, that was his line.
And so, the next week, next year, he did it again, and I went up to him.
I said, do me a favor.
Don't say anything about the montage.
It kind of ruined the mind of heart on that.
Well, I wasn't sad.
I was just, you know, professionally.
Oh, no, I'll never say it again.
And of course, he did.
You know, maybe not a joke.
But it was funny. I mean, it was funny and there were too many montages after a while. I think can you can you point to
in your life a film that you saw that said I want to do that like the film that influenced you to to really shape who you would become?
I think when I started I was always interested in film from age 8
So I won't bore you with the early films. I saw the Judy Garland. Please do. Oh, no, that's what we want to do here
All that kind of stuff and you know, I liked all that and I watched all that. I met a director named George Sidney
Later on who was a stalwart at NGM for many years and I said you directed my son thinks Star Wars is the greatest movie
I think one of your movies is the greatest movie I ever saw a scaramouche and I saw it eight times or something like that
And so I think that that kind of action adventure did influence me
But I I think it was it was actually the films of Robert Altman when you could see just how much you can get out of this
But the guy had done so much and he just you know, he was like a great athlete and so so versatile
Yeah, the same guy that does the player did match
You know, and you're just like you think about Altman that I love is you can't put him in a genre
Because just when you think you got him in a box. He's over it's completely somewhere
Well, it's a story because he didn't care that much for story
You know, and what and so I think I learned that from him to some extent is is the story is in the subtext
It's underneath and I think all the montages that I you know been lucky enough to do
Had have a subtext have something under where people are trying to win something or people are trying to gain somewhere
Or there's something that somebody wants and I and
Altman did that as well
And at the same time
Delivered a story, but he was really interested in what was underneath all the wonderful things that that movies can do and I was also very influenced by
Foreign films Fellini, especially
Again, these are films that that were not necessarily dependent on
story and stars not that I
Was against that and certainly the Oscars were about that
And as a guy that one who was known for doing trailers, you kind of have to be able to separate yourself from that so that you can get
The meat which you need for the trailer versus the the celebrity or versus the star am I kind of well in the trailer
You're trying to sell the movie basically, you know, so
It could be a star it could be a moments in the thing, but you're looking for
You know as somebody once said the most trailer like scenes in the film
You're looking for the scenes that deliver and putting them together and you know quick enough that
Everybody you'll get it, but that did teach me a lot about
Isolating what's important in films and to this day
I worked that way. I did a film
Called Moments of Truth that premiered here two years ago and it's I remember that vaguely and it's all documentaries
It's it's 150
Jots of documentaries none of which you've seen you heard I do remember that now
Yes, but I talked about it about that and that they're going to show that part is going to show that
So that's a late one that I've done and so I've been doing this kind of a sufferer long time and
That's always the answer is to find something underneath that is pushing it forward constantly that
That you don't necessarily have to understand. I don't have to announce it
But you get it as someone who's been in the business as long as you have
Are you able to go see a film and enjoy it or do you find yourself looking at it from a technical aspect and going
I know what it done this differently or can you just sit back and go you know what I just want to enjoy a film for two hours
No, I can't
I I absolutely are watching the shots. I'm watching the way it's put together and when I find my that I'm not doing that
Then I'm being pulled into the film. I slap myself and I say you're better watch it and I teach film now
And I tell the students that I said this is going to ruin
Your film going through rest of your life, but you've been watching films in a passive way since your
Two years old in front of the television set
And you have to learn to kind of watch how it's done. So even what we're doing now
I'm looking at the mic some I'm thinking about you know what you know how much time is left and all that kind of
And when I'm watching a movie I'm I'm wondering how the filmmaker put that together
And that's why I love Altman because he understands it. I like Stanley Kubrick because of that
I like Orson Wells. I did a film about him
because of that they're very
Aware Orson Wells said it ruins the movies for him. And yeah, and you were you were working on a film about him
I'd made it. It's called magician magician the astonishing life of Orson. Well fantastic bees. Thank you. Thank you
Um, I show that sometimes in my class as this is what I shouldn't have done
And I showed them the beginning because I was being really hassled by the by very nice producers
But they were nervous because they weren't used to doing documentaries and there wasn't that much in it
But to them it was and
They kept making me short and short and it and I went one step too far
Oh, yeah, but you know, but most people seem to
Appreciate it. And I think I did a good service to Orson Wells. Absolutely. I'm glad that do you watch narrative differently than you watch documentary or film just film to you
I think I do watch it differently
But you know, I I don't know if you've noticed but I you know the audience is
May not have noticed, but they're feeling it that documentaries are becoming more and more like narratives
Like you know with this with a kind of construction and a kind of story way and a kind of way of shooting and a kind of way of of
Polish at the end so
I'm watching for that, but I'm really watching as a filmmaker
You know the way I had an uncle who was a plumber and I said every time you went in a hotel and you flushed the toilet
Did you listen? He said yes, I did
Well, I'm also a musician and a very good friend of mine who is also a musician
We went to a concert recently and we looked at each other
We're like this is not going to be good for either one of us because we're going to be watching every technical aspect of the show and we did
But at the same time there's a certain point that I have to shut my brain off and go you know what this isn't my show
This is their show and I'm just going to let them do what they do
But there's always that small part of you that's just like oh, I would have done this differently or oh
Is there anybody in the current crop of filmmakers that you got your eye on?
I love the work of David Fincher
He doesn't make always the films and but I think he's you know from a craft standpoint the best
Right now
He doesn't necessarily
Make the films that that stories that I'm
interested in but he is pretty damn good. You mentioned
Kubrick yes
There's a movie that we that came out recently that
That very much seemed very Kubrick to me
It's the new Brad Pitt film ad Astra
Yeah, I haven't seen that James Gray directed and co-wrote that James Gray is a good director
He doesn't get a lot of talk but he's a good director and the way I saw that was it was just like if Kubrick had done apocalypse now in space
Wow
And it's and I think that it was horribly mis-marketed because people when you see the trailers and then you you as a guy who did trailers
It makes it look like this huge space epic and it's really not
It's more of a story of fathers and sons and
When you have to take the mantle over versus
You know when you have basically they find out his father is still alive
And he has to go try to communicate with him because he's causing these problems on earth from from your from like the outer banks of the galley
Should we have just had a spoiler alert for a moment there?
I'm just that's what it's about and
So James Gray is one of those guys that makes me go you know what I like to see more from him
And you said that you that you thought that he did great work. Yeah, I do too
I you know that the problem is what are they going to sell they're going to sell Brad Pitt in a space story
That's a very good
Because those those are the films that people want to see on the weekend that come here and you might have a more refined
Taste but still
The people that just want to go out for entertainment that used to be you know all kinds of things if I want to
You know
Read a book I'll stay home and read a book, you know, and that sort of thing
Well, you know, I want to be entertained. I want to forget my troubles at night, you know, and that kind of stuff
So people
Still are like that and they still hang out and come to the fears on Friday night and you especially young people and and watch whatever's around
They they don't care so that you getting art in
Into cinema is is difficult. I think that if you look at
The three people we've mentioned
Altman wells and
Who do we mention? Altman wells and a Kubrick. Yeah, they all left the country
They all left the studio system for a while and because the studio system the Hollywood is not set up for
That kind of a
I think and and and and also stubbornness that they wanted to make the films they wanted to make
But it can it can hurt your career in many ways. Well, especially as cinema is evolved in this past week
Scorsese was in an in an interview where he said that he didn't feel that these Marvel films were cinema
And I just feel like that definition has changed so much and it's it's become so subjective
of what of what we knew cinema as
Growing up versus the what it's considered now, and I think that's an interesting transition
It is I made a film recently called what is cinema as a matter of fact, you know and where we did look into all that
and and it is very different and one of the things that changed it was a story is not the most important thing anymore
that you're willing to
Kind of watch the texture as Letterman used to say stuff's gonna explode. Oh, yeah, you know where I and I do
I want a story like I love the visuals and I love that
I've lived to see this day as Kevin Smith says yeah, but I still want a story there
Well, I I don't know if you really always need a story and also the studios
Have had 120 years of making films with a certain kind of story the stories repeated itself again and again style
Absolutely really good style
You know Raymond Chandler said that you'll remember my books if you do for my style
I read a lot of this stuff in college and we were just talking in the pre-show
About things like film noir of that era of like multi-spoken in the big sleep
You know things of that nature and
To get people to go back and watch those kind of films. It's like yes, you've got this but but look at this like
Really this stylistically we've had people that have done so much more with less
Yeah over the years and and I hate that some of that's getting lost
Even stuff even for my time that I'm just like this is amazing film made well film noir is
You know certainly around and and you still see it and that's where they had very little money
So they may as well you stop same thing with your opinion films. They they couldn't afford to hire the you know
Whoever the big you just grabbed a garbo or whoever it was
So they would make do on their own and let the filmmaker make up for it and with their own style and they still do is there a
genre that you prefer not really no, I like everything good is good little kid. I love musicals and
I still do but I maybe I maybe the burn Peter's piece got me got that out of my system
Well, I know we know that Spielberg is redoing Westside story. Yeah, and I was coming
I know that Robert Wise did not like remakes of his own film
Although he did have a lot of respect for Spielberg. Yeah, Spielberg says he's gonna do something you look that man dead in the eye and you go
Okay, yeah
He probably shoots better than anybody
Even feature you know, he's just an amazing guy like that
On a semi-backtrack real quick. I had I had a question. I've just been holding on to here as somebody who has
Deftly shifted between documentary and
Narrative movie making there's I've noticed a recent trend with some of the smaller studios trying to get
Documentarians to make narrative movies and I was just curious if you think that that's trying to get back to the texture or what you would think on that regard
I haven't seen that so you know
If maybe that's happening. It may be just the the ones I'm looking at. No, but I know I think what you're what you might be
reacting to is the
The way the smaller distributors are using documentaries so that if you went to I'm sorry. I was off mic. That's okay
I a few there you go that's
I'm making this deep answer right now worried about I'm over I'm off mic
But folks who are not watching
This guy that asked me the question is way off mic to why off my center
So the
The smaller distributors are interested in documentaries because they can pick them up cheap
Where and the audiences are not necessarily interested in the foreign films that they used to pick up cheap
So they say okay if these documentarians I can I can exploit them and do all kinds of stuff for nothing with these
Documentarians maybe they can make a real movie what they would call quote a real movie and
Maybe they will
Deliver something for me and I'll make again money without spending much
Well, maybe it's just a some of the movies that we've covered
We've been fortunate enough to see screenings of there was and I maybe you can help me with this
Earlier this year end of last year we had one where there was both the documentary and a narrative film made by actually the same director
And I'm trying to remember how it was Michael apt had made the same film
Same story an American Indian Native American story
As a fiction piece and as a documentary
And he called it the two Bob's films because he won was for Bob De Niro and the other was for Bob Redford
There's worse names you could put on that. Yeah, that's true
But and it does happen because you get so involved in the story
That you you know you if you make a documentary about something
I'm sorry. Yeah, you want to go and take it further into narrative and you want to explore
The different kinds of showing truth and showing the ideas and playing with with cinema, you know
So you you are attracted to that yes, is there a story that you
Are wanting to tell that you haven't been able to yet? Well, I'm I'm writing plays a lot now
I used to 20 some years ago and I came back to it and I'm kind of
Briefing myself off with old scripts and old ideas from my place and you're sampling. It's not I'm totally sampling and
I find that I have great material
To me anyway now whether the plays go anywhere. I don't know, but they have a better chance in getting movies made
but I'm interested in a lot of a lot of stuff that
May or may not work. I you know, it depends, but I I'm
I may be the part of me as a writer at heart and and I like to just explore these things
I will tell you something that I'm fascinating about Sam have you seen this the trailer for Sam Mendes is a new film
1917 no, I've heard about the film. Yeah, it's interesting
The entire film is one shot
No, I did not yes, the entire film is one continuous shot takes place during World War 1
Andrew Scotts in this Richard Matten Benedict Cumberbatch mark strong Colin Firth and I'm like
Like you look at something like Birdman, which you know isn't actually
Shot well enough that you could see that but from what I'm told this is one continuous shot the entire film
I didn't know I don't know anything about that there was a film called the arc about
Museum in Russia that was all one shot where the guy just walked through the entire museum
I don't know this Sam Mendes thing. I hope they don't use the same bowl that they did on the
From what I'm told all that that this is the genuine article that he did one continuous shot for the entire film
Let me see if it's got her one time an hour and 50 minutes
Well, you couldn't do it on Christmas day. I'll look for it. You couldn't do that
Obviously when you're shooting in film because the most you can get is usually 10 minutes
You can maybe get a 20 minute 16 millimeter you can get maybe 40 minutes and that's about it
And I speaking of that I love that we're seeing films now that are kind of going back to that format earlier this year
Quentin Tarantino's latest film
Once upon a time at Hollywood the screen that I attended not only was in 35 millimeter
But they went so genuine that they didn't build it onto a platter. They had two projectors
And they went real for real and I was a projectionist when I was a kid and seeing that I was sitting next to a friend of ours
I don't know if you've never met James Faust. He's an artistic director for a couple of things
And he embarked on each other really well. We were sitting next to each other and just to know that there's still people out there that can do that
Was fascinating to me. I know Joker just came out this weekend. There's there's theaters around here that are showing it in 35 millimeter
And I just I love that you can go back to that because
Digital's great, but sometimes I kind of missed that old-school style
Well here in this festival in this document first there was last night of a 3D film and it short before it was in 16 millimeter
So that was kind of fun and you could really see the two, you know, obviously you can see the difference but
That happens, you know, they they do it, but it's gonna go I think, you know, it's unfortunately
It's not gonna film is not gonna stay with us. It's too easy to shoot
Stuff, you know, off your phone. Yeah. I mean as it's Sodaberg
It did a film last year that he completely shot on my phone
You know and and that's cool and that's great, but I also kind of missed that
That feel of that 35 millimeter you have to shoot it right the first time or you're literally burning money
Yeah, you would always figure how many takes I would think about the how the magazine I had and the film magazine how many
How long that would last me so
You know, I would say how long much do I want to shoot today of two or three magazines which were 10 minutes 11 minutes each
In 16 millimeter and that's what I shot and and so you had to try and figure it out and get it into that
And it was a big factor then when video came in you had a shoot you could shoot as much as you want
But the problem was you had to look at it to pick what you want it, you know, so
It was kind of a pain that you weren't
Kind of watching doing any creative work and you were shooting you're just kind of recording
So there's a movie that's gonna be tied in with your talk tonight
Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit superstar the life of times of Andy Warhol right
That was a film that I was asked to make
I had made one long documentary
Earlier in my career when I was doing trailers. I would get asked a lot to make
Making of a film, you know the behind the scenes which were more elaborate in those days and
I'd made a few
But I never really made a documentary
About anything that wasn't selling something
So I made a film about my son's little league at the time a little short that went to discovery channel
And then I made another film about Israel that nobody liked but me
But I you know, I was happy to make it. We were talking about that with Kirin who's I don't know in a communication
Well, suppose nobody listens to your broadcast
We're kind of used to that
Sometimes we don't even listen so you do want people to hear you
And see what you're doing and you want to communicate that way. So anyway, I made that film. I make a back to it actually
But then this came up and by that time I had done
Enough that I was confident and I was recommended to a woman who just wanted to do something on Andy Warhol rich woman
In Los Angeles kind of already and that's just stupid at all and so she hired basically hired me
And I said I'll do it if I can and I pointed see I owned a restaurant and there was a window there
and
I pointed at the window and there was a movie theater on the other side of the street and I said if we could show it there and
Long behold, we did
and it was a theatrical film and that was
The beginning of Andy Warhol and then did a lot of shooting tried to make it different
Music lots of different music is in it and I moved that around a lot. I was thinking
constantly about the style of the film and
Because what happened I think was
That doing the film about an artist gave me room
To kind of being an artist myself and making the film that was the subject matter basically
And this iconic classic artist so that that helped me on that film and
Um, I think it's one of my better films have you gone back to give yourself a refresher before tonight or you're gonna
Watch it with the crowd tonight for the first time in a while
I it plays off and on at the areas places so I've seen pieces of it and
I don't I like to look at my own films the director Mike Lee said well if you don't look at your own films
Who is who do you ask why are you asking someone else to do it exactly on the other hand?
There were directors said more some wells that didn't like to look at the zone films
I mean, I don't like to listen back to the show
But I feel like if I don't listen back to my own show, how can I make it better exactly right now?
I used to feel that way with the Oscars
And I after a while believe it or not, you don't feel like going to the Oscars every single show
You know, especially when the host is cracking on your profession. Well, that was all right
Is that was his job, you know
My job was to make fun of him in a way
so
I always used to go to the Oscars
So the Emmys if I was working on them just to see how it played even with that friendly audience that you have there
I think that's important
To kind of feel that and to see it on those huge screens, too
You're just going like, oh, I did
Yeah, no, it's great. It's it's look. It's a wonderful ego trip to make a film and watch it
You know everybody claps and then you feel good and if they don't like it, you kind of ignore that
You know, you just move on and you don't get it. Okay. They don't get it exactly right
Anything coming up on the horizon that you want to talk about? I'm as I told you
I'm doing a lot of theater. So I'm really working on that. I'm writing a book. Oh good cold very
Modestly the art of creative cinema and which is kind of about all phases of filmmaking and the way
One transforms from one thing to another. So the shot transforms to a sequence and using editing and the way we
inflect things when we're making films and
Well, that sort of thing a kind of technical. I don't know who it's for but I'm in I like doing it and so I'm working on that
And I have this film that that I started about a family
That had six stories and actually
They ran one of the stories here a couple years ago with Mark right now and but it was
It's something I want to keep finishing, but I have to find the money for that
So oh before we continue and we want you to go shake hands and kiss babies and all that good stuff before the thing later on tonight
We founded this show on shameless self promotion. So is there anything that people if people want to get a hold of you
See some of your works things like that as there's something you want to let them know
Oh, yeah, if they want to see you know
If they want me just look me up and and you can write me a note or something
It's you have a website working for you. I had a website somebody stole the domain
Oh, and I and I didn't feel like paying $3,500 to buy it back
So I sent the hell then I'll just won't have it tries me nuts when people do yeah, so I don't have it, but um
You know if it's if someone really wants us my films and can that you can find my films
You just got to look for them look for Chuck workman. Yeah, a guy that we are so honored that you stop by on now with us
Thank you so much good luck with everything tonight. I hope it's going to be an amazing night for you
Welcome. Thank you coming all the way down here a lot and don't miss those changeovers when you're projecting
You could explain what that means. Yeah, what's going to be like what's the big X in the screen?
I'm like no, that's that's old school and that's how we used to do it
So thank you so much for hanging out with us, sir
And I do want to say thank you
You're giving me a little microcosm to make my dad jealous in search of Kennedy was one of his is one of his favorite
I like that too. Thank you. Thank you. I shot part of that in Dallas actually
I have the six
Yeah, actually that's I believe the first place we came across it was when he came into town and I took him
And he went and sought out your film and I believe he owns three copies of it now
Well, if it wears out, let me know
Thank you so much for hanging out with us Chuck workman. They said I mean you are listening to the clubhouse podcast
We are live at the Angelica Film Center at Mockingbird station in Dallas. It is docuFest part of video fest 32
Hopefully we get barred before too much longer. Yeah, you're good. You're good. Thank you very much, sir
All right, and we've got somebody else sitting down with us. Okay, I need to make changes. Thank you Chuck
Appreciate her
All right, how you doing brother? I'm doing great. All right. Get ready to go into hour two
We've got your mic live introduce yourself to us. Please hi. I'm Sherry Dieterling
And this is my co-producer
Oh, we know this guy. We know this guy
Daniel Durrett. I'm Julian McGillicetti
Is that what you use when you go on the roads and nobody knows that you and you use that at hotels?
No, but that would be a good name for that right
We got it on wax. We'll just send that to you later
Okay, I think that would work one of our favorite humans is here Daniel's always with us whether it's press events or film festival
Film festivals. We do too many of them don't we? Is there such a thing though? I don't know
I feel like I have a caught in the corner sometimes and they just let me sleep and I wake up and go
I was gonna say I was gonna say they let you sleep
I'm not worried about the cut. I think I think we're confusing the definitions of sleep and pass out
As I will be doing here in about two months because the big show's coming up the fest
But if I get to do my own blatant self promotion for a minute December 14th and 15th
I don't know if you know we've set the we've set it for the big show who need sleep. Oh, who need sleep?
For Devon much love Devon. I saw him today. I had lunch. I was at the desk of whatever he named his cancer Bruce Bruce
That's right. I know I know he had emergency surgery this week. Yep. Uh, he's okay
He still can't talk even though he's trying to
So if you see him and you see him start to whisper yell at him because uh, but he's
It's actually good that he had the surgery this week because originally the surgery was gonna be in the middle of November
Which would have kind of messed with the time frame for the big show in December. So I think it's gonna be a hundred percent by the big show
December 14th and 15th go to hoody's sleep dot org
We will be on the air 36 hours straight at the premier event center in Lewisville. We have a venue now, which is great
Uh, I get to talk about it because I'm the president
Yeah, but we're gonna have a great time. This is our third year doing it raising money for two north Texas cancer research charities
Uh, cook children's and Fort Worth cancer CPU said cancer support communities north Texas as well
It's gonna be a great show this year and we're gonna we got a bigger venue
We're gonna have an absolute blast. So
That's good. We got that out of the way. Let's talk about some takes great education for you know
All of the people on who needs sleep because they're going to prove
They do not that's right. I will be defending my title
I'm the only person that stayed up all 36 hours both years. Oh, I want to be there. I'm just going for the three peeps
I did 96 when I was in the Navy. So you kind of had to back then though didn't you? Well, yeah, it was a combat situation, but uh
96 hours you start seeing little green men. I'm there at about 30
But uh, yeah, we're looking very much looking forward to the big show this year. All right. So what do you guys promote?
Uh, well, we actually
Unun unlike just the website like we normally are on here
You know with old drive X movies and drive-by movies and real news that's news with the z.com because you're extreme
Well, and you know news with an s was taken by a bunch of flyfishers and like oh, I see what they did there
Yeah, like canada I think or something, but they don't even have it somebody else went oh movies and then
Now it sits with somebody in the Midwest. I'm sure that's like please pay me
We were just talking about cyber squatters and how much that annoys me. Oh, yeah
I was glad I scooped up our websites as quickly as I did especially for the other show
I was surprised that nobody owned the cheap pop cast
Nobody owned it really. Yeah, the cheap pop cast pop cast
It's a wrestling show that we do and so like you know when you go to a concert and they're like hello Dallas
And wrestling that's called a cheap pop because you're getting a reaction from the crowd
So that's why we named our wrestling show the cheap pop cast. It's very pet love and and we were just kind of like that
So we thought about that. I was like there's no way. We're gonna go to that eventually and and well and I looked it up
And I was like nobody owns this domain. How is this possible? No, no, you were driving and sending it to me. Yes, I was like oh
Yeah, that's for real
So no it back to the point we shot a TV pilot. We're trying to tell a show
For TV in a version of what the website does well talk about it
It's a little bit office space kind of and that world of office space, but
The film industry invades our office space even though we're here in Dallas
So there's sketches and then we have actual star interviews where we talk about
Philosophical conversations. We start nice. I don't want to talk about what they
Just
Produced in our promoting at the moment the same thing they've talked about with 15 other outlets before they get to you
Absolutely, so we're discussing
You know items that are totally
You know bringing this star in as our expert witness so to speak well and when you do interviews like that
Those are the people that want to keep coming back because they're like they didn't ask me the same seven questions
That the 30 outlets before the mass and that's one of the things that I think we that you and I have always
Oh, yeah had as a mission on our respective outlets of we want to be the the outlets that ask the questions
That you don't get asked anywhere. Everybody at home is going. Why didn't you not say
Because everybody else covered it, you know, and and I think that level of honesty
I think appeals to the lot of the subjects that you're gonna have and again, that's what keeps them coming back
Where you see them at other festivals down the road and they're like oh, we remember you guys
I think that's what became
Ah, I just lost his name Jorge Gutierrez. Yes
Yes for the dip every year. Well everybody everybody remembers Dan anyway
But this is kind of hard not to is it occurs
But this is to give them one more reason to remember Dan and we think this is a really great concept
Not the least of which is because the show will be evergreen
It's not like it's going to become dated in two weeks when that movie has
You know when the bar when it reruns. It's still fresh exactly
Although a lot of the sketches are going to have kind of a
You know a system to their storyline
That's fair. Yeah, but I think that the going back to you could even cut to do episodes where you cut those interviews together
And then that can can be the thing too down the road
We have already added in to the pilot episode
Footage from red carpets. I mean because you know Gwendolyn
And Allison are both part of this as well
So it's kind of them behind the camera as much as it's them in front doing the interviews
You know, we add in every other you know, host we've ever had is essentially a character behind the
Behind the camera so to speak for the actual show which
Anything you want to for lack of a better term give away before it airs of anything they want to look cool
I think we got a wait for the money to talk on that
You know what I will respect that sir. Yeah, I you know, I'm sure whatever
You know place we go we've already got a couple of things lined up for people to look at it
And you know when we have hopes to hopefully keep the show and as a Texas production
With maybe even Texas distribution for the television and so
We've got our fingers crossed on that and we're probably going to get notes from them. I have no doubt
So that's the nature of the beast though is it when you don't get notes is when you start worrying well
I mean and in our our current
You know trust in the system that we've got going is that we will hopefully
um
Show this to a live audience where we've been filming it at the Texas theater. That has a very big
Character love the test as part of the show we we show you parts of the Texas theater. You would not traditionally
Pastore or see
Those are my hopes is you know to include
Outside of Dallas that are film fans because anyone just I mean just to know the fact of who built the Texas theater and who's
Been arrested at the Texas theater and things like that the criteria in collection
It may still be up, but you know they they've been showing on their website
The short film about the Texas theater. Oh, that's cool
So it's something that all
Criterion bonus you put criteria and on anything it's you automatically have my attention even the lately they've been dealing with a car
Criterion Chrysler
But there is a lot of their selections lately have just been really obscure
It's kind of like I love that they're doing that but you know
Throw me a bone every once in a while they've been hacked by Russia
Can we just at least get a blu-ray version of the Robocop criterion can I get that because I got someone to the lambs last year
And and they do oh, it's the new one. Yeah, I just I want but I just I
Yeah, that was just I like the new one now. It's just because I become a blu-ray snob that I'm like well the DVD, but
DVD you know it's cuz you're lazy and you don't want to actually get your phone out to look at the IMBB app when you want to know
Who is that character? I just think I just love what criterion does my wife for my birthday this year got me the the new criterion release of princess bride
Oh, and it movies it should never be redone for each ever preach
I love that post for the other way coming so the somebody said you know
I it's good to know that in a world where we're all divided we can all agree on one thing the princess bride should not be remade
You know, yeah, but yeah, it just automatically should have that pop up with the quote from Carrie L. Ways
Yeah, there's such a shortage of perfect movies. It would be a shame to ruin this one
Well, I was I had a friend of mine's youngest daughters college age over at the house and we always watch stranger things together
Oh, I dig stranger things and she's and we had just we had just finished season four
And she goes and she was like I've never seen the princess bride
And I was like it was like time stopped. I'm like oh, no, no, no
This is happening right now and you know Carrie always plays the mayor of Hawkins
And we were watching them like does that look familiar? He's like no, I go that's the mayor of Hawkins in the end
She just seeing the color drain from her face like oh my god
So I was 35 years ago shot up the head splits
So yeah, so is there anything you want to promote as far as the show goes because I'm getting the high sign right now
Oh, yeah, I mean, we're good. I mean, where can people go to help support it just show up to the website real news
That's news with the Z dot com E L R N E W Z dot com correct and
Drive X movies drive by movies either one works. We do that whole X like South by Southwest thing
Thank you guys for hanging out with us
Go enjoy the festival some of our favorite people are here
You are listening to the clubhouse podcasts. We're live at the Angelica Film Center in Dallas
There's a buzz going around right now because the festivals got movies right now. We got movies going in
Remember our normal show is at
Seven Eastern four Pacific from the vocal now studios. We're live to tape this week
All right, what do we what what what what do we do? There he is. Hey, how you doing?
All right, how are you sir welcome sit down
Joining us now
Got two shorts in the festival
His name is Daniel Montoya welcome to the show sir truck right on that microphone. Yes. Hey. Thank you very much for having me
Oh, thank you for sitting down with us. So you've got two shorts in the festival this year
That's correct. Yeah, talk right into that things to everybody can hear you. Yes
How's that? No closer closer. Just look at it right up on there. You go now somewhere
So tell one of them's called the bathroom ball. Can I read that correctly? No, it's about the bathroom bill
Okay bill, okay the title of the film is called him okay, and it's
short documentary that
In which I follow Ethan which is
An activist and advocate for LGBTQ rights and transgender rights here in Texas and he's just that down with us
If I'm not mistaken, let me try to turn my head now you're on here now. I'm on I had to push the button
Welcome sir. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Uh, has it aired yet? Has it shown yet?
Yes, the film just oh, it just happened. How did it go? I think it went great
Talk about what brought you two together to this project
Well, um, I knew about Ethan and when I learned that he was doing all of this advocacy group
I thought that it was very important to tell his story because he's through his story
We can show how absurd
Lost could be and how non-inclusive our society could be if we don't pay attention
And I mean, this is a recent recent thing if I'm not mistaken the bathroom bill itself
It was the 2017 okay, I was gonna say I feel like I mean granted as the older I'm getting the faster times going
So yeah, just just a couple of years ago
What to you Ethan as you'd met with Daniel what about that click that you said this is the guy I want to tell the story
That's a great question. Um, I think we had just we're getting lunch and we were discussing different ideas on what was going on
Talk right into that thing. Sorry very better. Thank you much better sir
Um, so we had been talking about we know what was going on and I said yeah
I'm going down to testify for this Texas you legislative session and he said well, what is that all about and
We've thrown ideas back and forth and he said well, why don't I just when I just start to film you and so
He's filmed me he woke up at the crack of dawn, you know to head down to Austin for that Texas trans-lobby day
And it wasn't until a couple months later. He said you know, I think I think I want to start put something together
And so he puts them together and we ended up with him knowing that you had those cameras following you
Did it did you feel any other pressures to to to accomplish the goal that you set out to do or was it
Was it for you just like okay? This is just a thing. I'm just gonna do what I'm doing so for me
It was just documenting history
I'm more of a behind-the-scenes person. I work in media myself and I'm behind the camera
So when it was weird to have a camera following me
It was like oh no, please please don't record Daniel, but it was one of those no we need to document this because this is part of history
It's like being on that side of the table being on this side of the table
Being on this side of the table
I'm always more comfortable because I'm doing the interviewing with somebody interviews me. I'm like
Yeah, imagine if I started asking you questions right now. So let's tell me about you again
Exactly. I just like um a stuff for the record. That would be really hilarious
So you want to stuff and things, you know
It's and it like you said being behind that camera and then having to be in front of it
But you know Daniel from your aspect
As you shot this did you did you feel you you had to direct Ethan at any point?
Or did you feel that there was just a naturalness there to it and organicness that actually made it work for you
I think that that that's yeah, you're right on and is
He was a natural. I mean all I needed to do was just
Point the camera being those moments where he was interacting with people and there was nothing scripted
There was nothing to direct anything to do. It was actually just telling it and hey, please
Let me be on your journey, you know because on each moment we will have an opportunity to document
The the rejection from the people and the legislators in the state. I mean we were able to capture all of that and I think that that
Shows how valuable this room is for as a piece of history. How long did you shoot?
We were shooting probably throughout a whole year if we can't then next year because there were two different
legislative sessions that we approached
So it was a journey
So how long did you have to cut the film down to how does how long does it run now right now? It's eight minutes
So you went for a year full of footage that you cut down to eight minutes?
Yeah, and that's the thing
At one point I had so much so many different stories
I have stories of transgender women, transgender men, non-gender
Confirming yeah, not non-binary. They're not conforming people correct and
And I was like wow, this is for a long feature. I can produce him hair them
I mean everything but I decided to just focus on what is it was important at the time and that was even story
Have you put any thought into to taking all of that footage and maybe making an anthology out of it?
Or is this really what you wanted to do? You know what?
This is the thing this topic is not going to end anytime soon and you're
You're right. I mean it may be something coming. Why not especially when we need to fight for for this for a right
Right to be talk about
If this taking place in Texas
Versa because you know Texas is kind of its own thing
Is is does that play into it more than maybe you think it would have somewhere else and if so how
So we saw the bathroom bill in North Carolina. Oh North Carolina. Okay, so I apologize. Yeah, I mean I'm in a Texas mind frame
It's okay. No, it's okay. So we saw it in North Carolina and thought oh my gosh now it's coming to Texas
Okay, so we okay, so I was okay. Yeah, yeah, oh no, I screwed this up. Yeah, no, no
So we we listened to um folks that came from North Carolina to say like what what were you hearing what was the other side saying so that we could get those
Talking points and counter them right because you need to know what the opposition is saying
uh the thing is that where we are today and today society
This is not going away like Daniel said right and so coming up on Tuesday
The Supreme Court's gonna be hearing a case on whether it was okay for someone to be fired because they transitioned on the job
So like this is now a nationwide thing. Yeah, so that's one of one of three cases that are coming up the other two
I believe are about sexual orientation and they got fired because they were
You can get and so this is not just a Texas thing. This is a this is a nationwide
We're facing so I'm getting the high sign already. I feel like we're just scratching the surface here
Where does the short go from here? Do you have other places you're going to be showing it?
Well, the show has been screening for a while now and
This is the last festival in which we're screening it. Okay, so next steps are
um
Just google us him the documentary because there's gonna be in different outlets for streaming media. You can stream it
That's what's coming next. All right. We have we founded this show on shameless self-probocean
So give us social media give us websites everything you want before we let you go. Yes, absolutely
More information about him will be at daniamuntoia.net and to learn more about Ethan and what he's doing now
Yeah, you can find me at Ethan Avanzino. It's a visa victor a and is a Nancy Z is in zebra
I and is a Nancy. Oh, and I am currently working on a project called safe to be which will be building tiny homes for
LGBT people who've been kicked out of their house
Called you're gonna go to safe to be dot or respect
Thank you guys so much for sitting down with us all the best you guys as a thing keeps growing and growing and growing for you
All right, thank you and Daniel from one of the shorts here at the
Video Fest 32 docu Fest my brain just locked up on me. Thank you gentlemen so much
You are listening to the clubhouse podcast. We are live at the Angelica Film Center in Mockingbird station as season 10 rages on
Did my best Michael Cole on that? Yeah, it didn't work out very well. We'll talk about him tomorrow
On the cheap pop cast, which is gonna be on early at 330 Eastern because tomorrow is hell in a cell
We're gonna be getting you ready for that as well
Go ahead and put your headphones on there sir if you would this it's just man. It's a cavalcade of stars all of a sudden
Yeah, it should be live go talk right and that's how right who you are. Hi, I'm
Ted Harden
Director photography or flanery and my partner is running back with her broken foot
That's right. We got nothing but time or eight o'clock whichever comes first
She's the writer director
Showed Thursday night
Are we this was our right on top of I think this was our last little
Preview our last little sneak preview before we open
Officially in hearts hot springs Arkansas. Oh, that's a couple weeks. Oh, wow. So tell us about to film
so flanery is about
The writer flanery O'Connor Southern writer and
More people know need to know about her amazing
work
Some who do will
Are in for a treat because there's so much fabulous
bits of her her life but also
actual readings from her short stories as well
But I like to say before she jumps on
Uh, is that if there were no flanery O'Connor. There's no kormic McCarthy. There's no cone brothers
There's Bruce Springsteen's album Nebraska is all about flanery
Um, and he says so
Lucinda Williams as well and Bruce gave us a song for the credits
We he had a book that came out
During the same time the film came out so we we couldn't fit an interview into this get your book and he's got a concert film
We're leasing this week as well about the western song the western songs isn't his album
So we have a lot of other celebrities Tommy Lee Jones Alice Walker Tobias Wolf
Alice McDermott Mary Carr lots of great writers and you've got a voice on this thing
That's nothing to shake at either. Thank you very much
Yes, Mary steam virgin is the voice of flanery O'Connor and she just does a wonderful job with her
Arkansas accent. She's amazing. I am such a fan of her. So talk about what what brought you to say. I've got to tell this story
Well, I actually have a co director a Jesuit priest named Mark Bosco
This is his first film ever and he inherited some older interviews
of
About flanery with her family members her editors her former publisher
And I took one look at these earlier interviews and I realized that we had an NEH project that these were really valuable interviews
And so Mark was a great producer and interviewer and we just started from there
We got we got some money and donations. Are we able to hire composers and animators and it's a great story
She wrote great fiction. How long did it take you to get it all done?
At least six years
After year six, we just stopped counting
Right while we shot for six years
What she found about finding films and those kinds of things
Years early
I didn't realize that it was going to turn out to be I mean, it's almost a million dollar film at this point
So that's big for documentary and I did not realize that at the start that it was going to turn into this kind of project
That's kind of the way it always works though
It's like this is what it's I this is what I really believe it's going to be and that turns into this you know
So this is the last preview you said before the before the major premiere
Up the road of peace as they say
How did it go?
Are the screening here? Yes, I was lovely. I mean generally people who come out
They see Flannery O'Connor and they're like I've been waiting to see a film about her life forever
You know, and we get lots of responses and sometimes stories of people having either known her or they they want to tell you when they first read
Flannery O'Connor things like that so it triggers a lot of those wonderful
Deep deeply felt sort of experiences that that a lot of readers have
But then first time filmgoers or
First time the people who were exposed to her work for the first time maybe they're accompanying somebody who's read her work
They're also like wow, I have to read her stuff immediately and that's also gratifying any thoughts of maybe turning this into more of a narrative than a documentary
Well, we've had some initial discussions about that becoming a biopic
Possibly so we'll see we're just taking it one step at a time
Texans are excited about the film. We are into the Austin film festival and so we'll be thank you
We're very excited and we will be back in just a few weeks
And no it's showing at Nola as well
So Norland. Yeah, Norland. So there's lots of
Obviously lots of interest in the South
There's also lots of writer writer really interest as well
But the the Dallas we've shown several films at the festival here the Dallas audiences are smart
They're engaged. They're interested. We always love coming here the art scene here is amazing
And I'm actually not from here. I'm originally from South Florida and when I go home in here 25 years so technically
But when I go home and I tell people like no you don't understand like
Don't stay off the TV come come see this you know and come next weekend because this is summer's last stand
I said that earlier in the show. It drops 20 degrees on Monday. I am ready
I am my my bank account does not like my power bill right now. It hasn't all summer
Uh, I'm from Jacksonville. Oh, okay. All right. You're up. You're way you're way up there
I'm Fort Lauderdale. I'm on the other end of the state. I'd actually Alex is down from there too. I was supposed to be born in Jacksonville
But I was late
So if you did the narrative
If you had your brothers who would play
Oh, that is such a tough one
Which you know would just to interject because that echoes the the conversation we had about
Which person which voice could we get to voice flannery for the documentary and
You know holly hunter just lived up the road she would be she's amazing too
Um, so we were going through all of these other southern actresses with wonderful voices and they were quite a few
And then we landed on Mary steen virgin and that you know the more I looked at it the more I looked where she's probably it was like
Yeah, let's reach out. She's like America's mom at this point. You know, she is so she can play flannery's mom
So I have Regina flannery's mom down. I would love to have Mary. She might be interested. Yeah, she she loved doing this
It was really fun to work with her and she was amazingly professional as you can imagine the flannery herself is a very particular kind of nerdy
Uh, that's smart as a whip
Funny nonsense very funny. Yeah, so it's it would be a stretch for whoever
But it would be a fun stretch
And we'd have to get Tommy Lee Jones in it too
Yeah, in some way. I'm just such a thing that dude in general
So he wrote he wrote on flannery. That's why he's in the films as well as Conan O'Brien
He's got a little snippet. They both wrote PC's on flannery economy when they were at Harvard. Oh wow at Harvard
And and Steven Corpare is he's a big fan. He would read flannery recently at a public event in New York
So
So we're we're getting this high sign already for you guys. I so you could shake hands and kiss babies
Yeah, but we founded this show on shameless self promotion. Yeah, exactly
So we want to make sure that you guys get your plugs out there website social media where can they find you to get this film
flanneryfilm.com
We're on Facebook flannery film
Instagram flannery film
And we'll have more information about our upcoming screenings and our premiere and where we have a big kind of secret award
That's going to be announced soon
It's a huge life changing kind of thing. It'll be great
Our company name is long distance productions and that's also just calm because we've done other films
In Louisiana, but I know you guys do sports as well. We do this was kind of a fun thing shooting driving to Iowa driving to New York driving places
because flannery suffered with some arthritis that then was lupus
Like her father as well, but we did have this playful like wow in Iowa flannery as the
Doing crew you know for the boating
Oh wow and flannery, you know, just so she would actually chuckle at that that she had that sense of humor
But flannery and in those that colliding with sort of sport
Mentalities would be it's well. We hope she's inspiration for people who suffer from lupus or on
Cretches or in wheelchairs like athletes who are in wheelchairs
She was that kind of hero
And so we're buying tickets for the lupus foundation and
That's a lot of our outreach. All right. Thank you guys so much for having us. Bart's Bart wise is here
One of our favorite humans in the entire world Bart wise just rolled up on us
And you guys have heavier lifting right because the art section is now
And it looks really really great. It doesn't get enough credit for the photography thing
So good notice that's the only time
Hey, you get the bar wise seal of tuition for anything that that's worth its weight and gold
Do you guys know we all get a conference is in Bart and I started at basketball game
And he and I have to be on opposite team. So there are tribals on the court
It's not true. It's dear friend
Bart wise is one of our favorite humans ever
I asked everybody else tell us who you kidding me she's been very humble
But she's getting the recognition she deserves absolutely. Thank you guys so much
You are listening to the clubhouse podcast live from docu-fested video fest 32
We're trying to figure out if this is five six or seven that we've done now
I want to say this is seven
Well can we have our next guest joining us? Please introduce yourself to us
Raleigh my name is Moses Borraz. I'm Mr. Zutsu. That is a sharp looking suit sir. Thank you. That is great looking
Yes, I'm actually a little jealous right. Now I feel under-dressed. Oh, well. Thank you
This is me when I was 16 years old. This is 40 years old. Oh, wow, yeah, it's a little batuco pin also
I'm just in in awe you look fantastic. I can't count up that I can't
So well his story was part of the documentary short block that just got out how did it go it went great
We had a great audience and it was good to be able to share people share everyone the particular history the particular culture
What got you into it?
My dad was a particular back in the 1940s at the Zuzu riots during that time and many of the
Patuco's Mexican-Americans back in Southern California including El Paso, Texas because that's where it all started
I would wear them to go to dances and parties and and sometimes even everyday dress that that's what they would wear these these suits
so
My dad was a big influence from there and then also Phyllis Estrea
She's the maker of El Pasoco Zuzuz. This is the suit that I'm wearing currently right now
It's a custom tailor made suit by Phyllis and you can also see the little emblem inside the pork pie hat
It's a good looking hat. Yes, so
Looking everything. Let's be honest. Look at the even the tie-tack is a man wearing the Zuzu. No, that's him
I'm gonna use the tie-tack. Is that your official tie? Oh, that's even better. This isn't me 40 years ago
I'm serious. They used to sell them at car shows. They used to sell them in low-rider magazine and a lot of other places too as well
So so what made you want to turn this into a short from documentary?
Chancellor Makenjula. She's the director of the film
She approached me and had a senior project that she wanted to put together
So she interviewed me a new a little bit about my story and said I want to create this documentary on you
And I said yes, so because all I want to do is get an A in the class and basically that's what she want to do
There you go
She was there in her senior year. It was a senior project and so
She put the film together and said this is what I'm gonna do. Let's put it out there also at the film festivals and
Lo and behold that's what we've been doing
We've been going to 12 different film festivals and it's still going
So and all she wanted to do was get an A in the class and she got an A by the way, and she's getting a lot more now
I'm sure. Oh, yes. Yeah, we've we've had
Three awards for best documentary short film from Edinburgh to
Here in Denton. We had an honorary mentioned. We also had
Anaheim, California. We had the best documentary short film
Best award out there as well. So we've been doing pretty good and we're taking it across the United States
It's amazing. How long did the short end of going? How long does it run? It runs 17 minutes?
Oh, so not not a pretty good length. Do you do you feel that it tells the story well enough?
There's a lot more to it. So it does give everyone a good preview of
My story basically my dad's stories and myself too is being a patruco and so I
There's more to it. So we hope to kind of bring more to it and
Who knows I mean we just think about you know making a feature film that would be great to have mr. Zootzu the story behind
The history. Have you been doing a lot of Q&A's at the festivals?
Yes, we have and enjoy it because we're out here just to
Educate the community basically to and bring the history of it and the culture has there been and can you think of any
Questions that absolutely just threw you off that you've gotten that just that made you actually wait a minute
I got to think about that. Yeah, there's probably been a couple of them. Is there one you can think of a fan that we can talk about?
I can't even think of right now, man
See, I'm still stuck on the fact that I may be cool someday, but I'll never be having my own tie-tack cool
Oh, that I mean you would be looking good in Zootzu now that I could come in short and wide. I'm in
Yes, they're right. Yeah, they're all tailor-made custom made because we can make them they go through L. Patruco Zootzu
INC and you can find them there if they've been making them since 40 or over 40 years and make them worldwide
they've made them for many different productions and
Phil is still make some today the Astrea family and like I said she was my adopted mom for a couple of years too and put me in the suits
Because we had a dance company called the El Patruco Dance Company if you look it up on Facebook
You can look up and you can see some of the pictures of the past history and I became a model during that time and we were teaching
Everyone and even opened a nightclub and under 21 nightclub in East L.A. Oh wow to educating
Kids youth at that time in order to learn the culture and so
Give them an alternative place to go instead of hanging out on the streets
They came out there and they would come to the nightclub. We would perform
On Friday nights and Saturday nights and teach them about their history
So you say that they make them they tailor-made them how long does it take from the time you get the measurements
How long does it take to actually make one that it's ready to wear that will take about anywhere from two to three weeks depending on their style and there's different fabrics
you can go from
Wool to Gabardine to the old shark skin material that they used to make it in or even to the polyester
So in its tailor-made and custom you know to you from anything from the hat to the shirt to the coat down to the shoes and the pants
How many do you own now I own five right now, but I do have my original suits that were 40 years old
Wow don't fit in them anymore
Because you get older and you know like Steve Martin in the first father of the variety puts on his tux is this
Still looks great. Yeah, yeah, that's me. Yeah, definitely is there one that is there one that you just have
And like this is the one I'm going to keep forever. Yes, it's my very first
Zoot suit is a black and white pinstripe suit that I used to wear when we would perform at different car shows and
Nightclubs and in L.A. and and other parts of California as well because we had actually we had toured around
Different places under the El Patruco dance company at that time period
But yeah, that one is the one that I definitely hold on to because there's a lot of great memories
Actually, you can see all the my knees are like they're burnt out because of all the
These bands. Yes, they were all burnt out and
Because all the knee slides and things like that that I used to do and so I really hold that one dear to my heart
So you talked about hopefully kind of expanding this into to a to a bigger story. Yes, where would you like to see it land?
I would like to see it
Distributed and all the theaters in order to educate people and bring it to the community because the Patruco history is slowly
Dying out especially with our resources and like I was mentioning about my dad, you know, he recently passed away
So and I yes, thank you so much. So I'm carrying on his legacy and you know giving it to my grandchildren
And my great grandchildren when they come around too as well to pass on the struggles that they went through because we don't have great grandchildren
But we have one are you serious? Yes my wife my beautiful wife Rosemary of 33 years is with me
Congratulations. Thank you. Yes. We have 11 grandchildren and one great grandchild. Wow. Yes
How does that change your perspective though? Are they are they interested in?
In the whole thing or they just kind of like that's grandpa's deal. Let him do it. No actually if you go to my
You go to my
Patruco boogie dance company also. That's a company that we have a small
I have a couple of our granddaughters that are involved. I have my grandson
There's a picture when you go to my picture and you see my grandson and I were in zoots. He's a he's 12 years old
And he's in a zoo too and he's doing all the moves and things are just like what I do and I show it to him
Do you feel like when you put it on just like your whole vibe changes?
Oh, yes, definitely. There's just something about it. You're just like you walk differently. You carry things differently
Yes, where else is the film going to be showing soon?
The next the next showing I believe is also going to be another one in California chances not here
She's in Berkeley in film school out there in the grad school
So there she's she's the one who tells us where to go and when to go and stuff like that
We just got back from Edinburgh, Texas at the South Texas International Film Festival
So that was one stop and then like we said the other one was Anaheim
So we're going through our next stop is probably going to be in California once again
We were in Philadelphia at the Latino film festival out there
South Carolina also as well at another
Palacena de Odyssey film festival
We had two showings going on at the same time one in Albuquerque, New Mexico
And then also here at any Burke on the same day at the same time. All right. We're getting the high sign for you
But before you go shameless self-promotion. So we founded this show on tell website
Social media the whole thing give it to us right now
Um, if you go to El Pachucco dot com El Pachucco Zuts. That's one area on Facebook
You can also go to Mr. Zutsu on Instagram. You can go to
Mr. Zutsu the Facebook page Pachucco boogie dance company you can also go on there
You can go to my own private page too, which I don't mind which is under Moses porra
It's good to see you
Thank you for being here. Thank you for hanging out. Let's go enjoy the festival sir
Yes, I can eat all you have to hit you up for one of those suits though. Oh, we're definitely
So to El Pachucco, you'll find out you'll definitely give you an art page. So we're gonna get you and Don matching Zutsu. Yes. Yes
I want this this has to get we got to get him in purple. Yes. Yeah, he's got to go purple
Yes, I do have a purple one and you and I you heard him off Mike earlier. He is on Mike now down. Be careful
I will wear a purple suit if I get a dance with this guy. I will do it. No, you're gonna dance with him
Okay, you know what for that. I'll do it for that. I'll do it
But I heard him off Mike earlier. He's on Mike now
He is the man that once about six years ago decided to take a couple of guys that barely knew what they were doing and put him at his film festival
And now we're here ladies and gentlemen joining us right now one of our favorite humans Bart Weiss how are you old friend?
I'm good. I'm good. I'm in my element
Oh, this is dude. This is amazing tonight. You guys are killing it again
Well, thank you. How are you guys doing excellent? We're for the fact that we're 90 minutes in like I blinked and we were 90 minutes
And wait until you hear back the conversation. We had to check
What an amazing that dude what the stories he told great, but he was a great interview
I mean everybody you've given us it's always great, but that was an amazing interview and so I can't
Tonight is going to be really great. You know, we have four of his classic montages
One of them about bugs bunny. He mentioned that
That was my choice
and then
And his superstar fell about Andy Warhol
Is really great, but you know chuck to me
Not only just can combine things together, but really gets at the heart and soul of what all of these things are in terms of montage
You know, he he's the only person
I know they can really work in the commercial world of Hollywood, but also has the heart of an experimental filmmaker built in
And so talk about this is docuFest you this is one part of video fest
One part of many things what else is coming up tell everybody
So we're here for man. Um, well
So every Thursday night until Thanksgiving we have a program on ke are a television called frame of mind and
Frame of mind has some really great shows coming up
Next week's show our series of Texas short documentaries one about and Richards and Molly Ivans, which is really great
Another one about you know driving from Austin to Dallas
Have you ever stopped and had a colachi in west?
You better believe that. Yeah, hello
Check stop even when don goes he brings me back colachi's from west though. What yeah from the check stop in west of 353
Not like I have that memorized. I'm only gonna be on for one second with you real fast. I got one question to ask you
Seven can we can we come
Can we come back next year
Yeah, he always has to ask
So I need you know, um, so there's a documentary about the check stop
Oh, colachi, Texas, and that'll be on KERA next Thursday night 10 o'clock on KERA television
I'm gonna have to get I see I've got AT&T now so I can't get that I don't get that channel on my I get KERA
Well, you because it's the it's the direct it's the streaming service at AT&T does I'm it can I get it on their website?
You uh that I don't know the answer to that but
I'd be willing to bet you know somebody that has like an old-fashioned television
Ha because I really want because I love the check stop so much. It's like they've built these other places around it
And like they're not the check stop now. Yeah, and and you see them with it the way that where they bake the things and all the people who do that and they're open
24 hours a day seven days a week three hundred and sixty five days a year
So just you know, I was shooting I'm working on this film about brave combo and I was in the great band brave combo
So they were playing Westfest and I thought well while I'm down here
I'll stop in and have a collage and I didn't have the patience to wait in line. Yeah, it's insane. It's they they're so busy
They have two different lines. Yes one just four collaches and then they have the a lot of deli sandwiches and desserts and things
I love just sitting in the line and looking at all the pictures on the wall of all of the
past present bands and performers that have come through that have signed glossies for them and you it's just it's fat
Like they are history
Just just standing there and just getting it's just that's so much more
So we have our alternative fiction this festival coming up and
Not exactly sure what I'm doing there after waiting finish this one first and then we have
What else do you got coming up our north Texas University's film festival on the spring and
You just finished the video race video race and love the cat fest in the summer
We gave you know just normal year. You know we got stuff happening
I people always tell me you're so busy. I was like oh, you know what they say about idle hands
Hey, you know if I don't if I slow down I'm not gonna know what to do and
Because you all are listening to podcasts. You should listen to my podcast
Plug it my friend. Did you know that I have I do it's called I get your newsletter if I'm okay?
Well, thank you anybody who reads my newsletter. Thank you very much
But yeah, so the fog of truth is a podcast about documentary films and
If you enjoy listening to me talking or writing you'll enjoy the podcast even more and if you don't know Bart
He is a walking talking living breathing and cyclopedia and
Clinic of documentaries and film in general. I mean you are a film historian sir. Don't don't sell yourself short on that
Well, it's just to say I've lived a long time and observed a few things and
You know when I've I've just I've watched a lot of films. I'm excited about things and and by the way any
History I tell you is an extremely opinionated version of that history
But there's one thing I want to tell you about one of the episodes of
The frame of mind show. Mm-hmm. So um are you a sports fan abs a sport of our show normally? Okay
So do you know the certain
Talk show host on klyf who's been doing this for a very very very long time mm-hmm
You know who that might be that that list is kind of long and distinguished well
It's only one norm hits kiss. Oh the great. Well, I you say I think you say norm. I think the ticket
Yeah, oh god. I said you said klyf. Well, he was on k enough at one time. He was he was into I'm the ticket right
Excuse me my bad. That's all right. We got you. We got you so
One of the episodes I did a sit-down interview with norm where he told his story and the history of Dallas sports. He is that man
Is he is a quality human? Oh, there was there was a documentary that was shown a few years ago
That was about the Texas Texas A&M rivalry the one star holy war that he was a part of
And he was there and he was sitting right next to me
And we wound up at an elevator and he could not have been more cordial
He could not have been nicer and you talk about a guy that's an encyclopedia of knowledge
That guy is amazing and
I mean he's been on ESPN
He and he and Hank Greenberg are two of the biggest horse race handicappers on the planet
Hickbringer was guy that we know from back where we're from in Florida and
I I need to see that because I'm a huge fan of norm
So that'll be like in mid-November we're going to do a
screening of the film at a theater which we have not yet determined where normal be there
So we're having a live event connected to the screening because I know that it's just it's gonna be one of those really great things
So in in this thing so norm just goes tells all kinds of incredible stories and they're really great
But at one point he's starting to talk about
how
sports is like war
And you have the defense and they're doing this and then the offense and they're doing this
And it's like you're taking territory from the other team and it's like the way he tells the story is just really
And people that have never heard norm talk to hear that kind of a thing in norms of voice in my head and that
I don't do a norm way he talks like this sometimes like I can't do norm justice you have to hear norm talk
And and when you see him
That's the other thing question you listen to him in the radio you don't get to see him very much right
But his eyes are incredibly expressive absolutely and it's just an amazing person
So yes, and this is one of the great joys of making work is you get to meet all these wonderful wonderful people
And I'm working on four films
As you always are and
They're all moving on nicely the great combo film we're making progress on doing a film about Andrew Saras and Molly Haskell
two film critics and
reducing a film about a technology company and I'm working on a dramatic series
For mobile devices
Where some of the episodes are video some of them are audio some of their are music video some of their still images
And this experience once you download the app is five and a half weeks
Where every day you get one piece of digital media
So it's a one continuous story told in a completely innovative new way you tell me when it's ready
I will download that app
Seriously, well, we were hoping for January and it's gonna take a little longer now, okay?
So we're working on it and we want to talk to you about maybe doing who need sleep in December with us, too
Okay, but that'll be December 14th and 15th, but I'll talk to you about that off air. Okay. Don's telling me you got to go
Okay, so we got people we weren't we need to talk to you so let me just tease one please do please do please do
The last thing and then I
Watch the movies that I'm supposed to be in
So one of the other things we do is the Ernie covax yes Ernie covax award and
I can tell you that the Ernie covax award is in
December mm-hmm and
The person we're giving it to you. I cannot officially announce that we were gonna get it out of you
But they were part she was part of a very important
comedy troupe
that today
Is celebrating its fifth year anniversary of airing on television. Oh, I watched some of this earlier today
And I know who you're talking about. It's like a narrow it down to six people
Yes, and one of them we've already had yes, we have Terry Gilliam. So I'm not I can't say anything
So figure it out on your own. Thank you very much. Thank you bar
I know he's that's sticking around so we can try and just say if we get a reaction
I'm texting Devon after the show because we're he and I were watching that together. Oh that
That's you two's wheel house. Oh
It's very rare. I don't know if it's ever happened
But it's at least very rare that we have the same guest in two different segments on this show and he switched seats and he and
That's how we tried to throw me off is he went to the other chair, but we said
That he had two
Shorts in this festival. So now we're going to talk about the other one Daniel Montoya's back with us welcome back sir
Let's talk about the other one. Yes, absolutely. Well, I'm here also with
Alejandro Manor which got directed and I would like Alejandro to tell us what the film is about Gary the yard artist
Get right up on that microphone circuit right upon it
Feel free to move it as you need yes, but we need to write on top of it
Gary the yard yep right there. How's that? No, how's that sound good now you're on it. Okay
Yeah, Gary the yard artist is a I live on up and close to where Jerry Gary lives. I enjoy by his house
Countless times, which I'm assuming right here in Dallas because you're right in KNON shirts
So for those who don't in the Dallas-Fort Worth area that area is kind of on the northeast side
Of Dallas not true north. It's still a little bit south of true north, but it's on the northeast side
Yeah, just just a little north of what we call the neighborhood in Lakewood. So yeah, very historic. Yeah, yeah
So I drive by his house and he's got all this crazy stuff out in the yard and
I pitched this concept to Daniel and I said hey, why don't we see about getting this done?
We pitched it to do a Gary and Gary said yeah, go ahead
So you did a short on in that area earlier to how long did you get how long is the show?
It's about three and a half minutes. Oh wow. Yeah, so tell us more about Gary because I'm reading this synopsis here
I'm kind of fascinated he's he's an interesting fellow
He he collect his it started he moved into the place and he got this big boy
Statue I guess and for people that don't know big boy was a series there. So I think they're still one in LA
I think so yeah for for people like me that are fan of the the company Funko who does the pop figures
Big boy was the first license they ever had oh wow, okay
And that's one of the ones I want is the big boy because I remember a big boy from when I was a kid
So yeah, that was that was sort of the the Genesis was to pitch it to
I needed to a co-producer director and I pitched it to Daniel who we've been working on other projects and then um from there it went to
uh approach and Gary and seeing if he was cool with it and he said yeah no problem
So we and from what I read he's he puts just all these different displays out that people
People just come by and look at just as maybe conversation pieces or yeah, he's got he's got like a like a dinosaur out there
And he's got all sorts of crazy stuff just our yard aren't really he finds uh all kinds of people contact him via
Facebook or via email or in the street and say hey, how I start you that I'm not using or how this old Buddha
Or I have the sign of the day queen do you want it does he does he rotate stuff out or is it all just there?
Yeah, he does and then he does a seasonal stuff
So he's nice he's setting up for Halloween and he'll do I can't even imagine oh it's insane
They'll do Thanksgiving and then he'll do a big thing for Christmas and I kind of identify this with because my office at work
We call it the museum uh-huh because my office I have about it's probably what would you say Alex about 10 by 10 probably at the
I would say it's an obsessive amount
I just decide the size of my office. Oh the size actually more like six by six maybe you're talking about my cubicle
Yeah, and it's full of action figures and and things like that and I like it is its own museum
We call it the museum for a reason and the reason I do it is be cut number one my wife won't let me have it in the house
But that's a different story
But the other reason is it's it gives people something to come and have conversation about right
And I love it when people can do that because I really believe just from what I've read and what you've told me
I think that's kind of his reasoning behind it is to give people a conversation starter. Yeah
Yeah, he puts it out there and I think he just kind of likes to
See the reactions. Oh absolutely people that
He's mentioned something very interesting in the screening and is that
A lot of times he arrives home and there's people taking photos of his stuff
Yeah, it was yard. Yeah, he just waves
Are there days where he's like how do all these people know where I oh wait a minute now that's I do know how they know where I live
Busy streets. That's the thing. It's a very busy street
So whenever you're driving and at any time during the day or that night there was there is something going on
Yeah, and he has like on the yard at night. So
As he seen the short and in his final. Yeah, what do you think?
He he liked it. He thought it was funny
He loves it. He brought his daughter today. Yeah. Oh, so he's here today. Yeah, he was
We think he went to dinner
His daughter goes about that time. It is about that time
So are you guys going to take it anywhere else?
Or was this just kind of a thing you wanted to do for video faster? No, we submitted it to the
Earlier we submitted what festival was that Daniel? Oh, we've been to
The impact film festival and we show it
Delatino latino film festival as well. Yeah, or it actually won
And yes, there are some right now. We don't have a confirmation, but you will see
This short documentary in the scene soon. Yeah, do you want to make a longer version of it?
You know or is it is that where it needs to be at some point, you know
You you you kind of make a movie and then you just let it go
You know, it's like a piece of art, right? You just once you put that last piece of pain on there
You just don't want to add any more pain. So you go complete with it. Yes
And the reason the whole reason that this the genesis for this film is is I've been working on a documentary film for 10 years
And I haven't finished it Daniel's my editor and we've been working off and on for 10 years on this project and I needed to
To create something and finish it. So that was sort of the genesis and we've made this short film
So maybe give you the creative energy to finish the other thing. Let me finish this. That might motivate you to finish the other thing
Yeah, yeah, it's a sense of you know done
Is there anywhere that people can go to see the film or do they need to come see it at film festivals film festivals right now?
Okay
Actually, we'll be out for streaming
Okay, I was actually curious if you want to tease what the other thing you've been working on
Yeah, so the other film is called crew 713. It's a story of my dad's bomber crew from second world war. Oh wow
He's got a he's got a card that he's showing us and
The story is is my dad was a radio operator
On this crew and it was the first crew to complete third-emission combat tour from their bomb group
And as I'm doing the research for this film it turns out that it's the most devastated American heavy bomb group of world war two
Oh, wow statistically, okay, so
You have this story of this
crew making it to 30 missions completed and all around them is just death and destruction and how these guys get back into plane
a day after day and you know fight the Nazis and do what they have to do
It's a pretty amazing story of survival and the human
ability to just deal with
A lot of adversity so
All right, so we want to let you guys go shake hands and kiss babies and go enjoy the festival
shameless self-promotion
Sure, where can people get a hold of you about this film which one?
Uh the one you you played today and both of them if you want I'm good
Tell us okay crew 713.com for our for my documentary film and then our
Well, Gary your our is you can also check my website Daniel Montoya.net for more information
Yeah, and I'll definitely post it there for streaming once we finish the circuit
Festival circuit guys. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. Thanks for having us. Go enjoy the evening
Thanks man because we're getting ready to wrap up here too for much longer
All right, so much going on at docuFest this year and it's just one part of video Fest video Fest has really becoming a great multi
sectioned
Deal and the fact that we get to be a part of it's even cooler. I think we're waiting. I think are we still waiting on Kelly?
I don't know what's going on. I'm not sure. I actually do not see where Kelly wound. I don't know we're done
Yeah, they could be in the same place for all I know. I don't know. That is also true. Maybe they went to dinner
But it's also what I love film festivals too because they're they're the opportunity that we get to
See some of our our people that we don't get to see much right right right over to our right
Markis is over there doing his thing down the hall Daniels doing his thing
General is back here at the table. What's done?
Don is right here
That's how I was just saying we're about that time we were waiting on Kelly Kelly always wraps these things up for us
I
We had to let Kelly get some beverage you know
It's refreshment another one of our favorite favorite humans who was now overlapping into multiple projects that I'm working on
Kelly kitchens is here friend
I'm so fabulous. How are y'all? This has been insane. I know. I mean this is this
I don't I can't remember the last time that video Fest was just we were this just
Yeah, we I haven't touched the run sheet. I have not touched the run sheet at all
We've had no downtime. No, that's a good thing. I don't think that's an excellent thing
So I'm so happy that makes me very happy. I mean that the
We we plan the you know what the thing is we planned it
And we set the time frame during the time when I figured there would be the most filmmakers and there was
There they are what yes, don't yeah, Kelly. Can we come back next year? You already asked
You already asked for
But we had to get the laugh on god love and somebody has to
Yeah, allegedly
Yes, so this is this is going on through tomorrow. Yes, so well
This will be up tonight so people can hear this and come out tomorrow any any big highlights for tomorrow that they need to know about oh my gosh
Okay, can I grab a book easy. Of course you can they're your books
Okay, they wouldn't be here without you. That's fair. That's fair
Okay, can I tell you the film that I'm most looking forward to? Absolutely
Okay, tomorrow at
530 is a film called beyond the bolex
Now that's not the thing that you exercise with
That's the bolex never mind
It's not a Rolex. Okay, no, no the bolex is what Michael Scott has on the office
He has a bolex watch and there's I thought that was a pholex maybe I know I think it's actually called a bolex because he has a certificate of ownership on the wall
Yes, that's funny. Well, okay, so
The bolex was one of the very first
Home movie cameras, okay, so in the 20s it was invented by this man and who wanted to I mean it was like a
And a major inventor
and he so so here's the thing it starts out in his grand on oh great-granddaughter
Is a filmmaker and she's the documentarian on this film
She had no idea that that her great-grandfather was invented this camera and so she starts you know, and of course he's long gone
But she runs across all of his material when her grandfather passed away
So so his son had kept all of the material
But they never talked about it nobody ever talked about it
And so she starts doing all this research and all of this um, you know
Looking up. Okay, who has who has been who has used a bolex camera? Well
Who it's who used a bolex camera is very first film or is first thing he ever shot Steven Spielberg
And I mean couple people know who he is
Yeah, and he's an up-and-comer and so and and I want to say Peter Jackson and and she has she has foot
And so she starts to do all of this research into
Why didn't I know about this does anybody how did know how does nobody know about this and so she connects with the with a
An archive in Switzerland and starts to do the research and
So this film is come full circle because she is a filmmaker
And she had no idea that that was even
In her family and when is that showing them on it's showing tomorrow at 5.30. Okay, so we have plenty of time to get down
Yes, yes, you do and
Okay, and then okay, can I say okay? Let me go back
The first film tomorrow at noon. Okay, actually it starts at 12 15 or so
Um is a movie called alternative facts and it is about the Japanese internment camps
We're watching world we're two
And so you can go to early service and then get here in time. Yeah, absolutely
And have popcorn for lunch proper planning people proper planning
Um, so yeah, I'm excited to see that one too because
You know, we
America's treated people kind of poorly and and we need to remember this that we do do it again
Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. Yes, absolutely
So uh then led her to the editor is an Alan Berliner film and
I haven't seen this one, but
From what I understand it's it's more about political cartoons. Oh, okay. Yeah, so so that one
Then citizen blue is about a filmmaker named Jason
Jason James blue
Um, who actually lived in Houston. He um, started the rice media center in Houston. Okay. Um, he started swamp
Which also which stands for Southwest alternative media projects up belief and um, I will accept that answer
So okay, but the thing is he's a filmmaker that everybody has seen his film
And you don't even know it. Oh wow. Okay, so
His his most famous film probably is the I have a dream
speech. Oh wow. Yeah, so I mean like everybody has seen that right and
Anyway, so it's about him and it's about with his life and what he's done
Uh, then we talk then I talked about beyond the Bullets, which I'm very excited about
Um, after Munich, which we have the filmmaker here for this her name is
Fred Francine Zuckerman
after Munich was in
Night in 1972. I believe at the Olympics in Munich
That's where the it's the several 11 people from the Israeli team were killed and
Oh, yeah, the movie that uh, that was there was a movie down about that with Eric Banna. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes
And the aftermath with it under the same name
So this is this and she is here. So Francine was here
Then our final film of the evening is called Tattoo apprising and that is local filmmaker Alan governor
um, and
talking all about the
history of of
You know tattoos and just a couple of weeks ago
We had the harvest moon tattoo expo up in Denton. I was there. Okay. The charity had a table. Yeah
And we got to beat some amazing tattoo artists and see some amazing work
And it always is really good for your foot traffic when they put you next to people that have puppies
Yeah, there were little bulldog puppies playing in a pen
And so we're like hey, we're good right here. Good foot traffic heart breaking at the same time. Oh
Oh, they were great. I know because you want to take them all and take them home
That's why that's why I kept on this side of the barrier because I would have been arrested and taken the check
Yeah, how many can I fit in my shirt? Exactly and they got there so adorable
But you know what I mean, that's not going to go well for you in prison with grand theft puppy
Great. Yo, I saw the puppy. I'll still a puppy again
I'm bad. That's right. That's right. You know
I love video fast. I don't know if y'all know that but it's one of my all-time favorite clients to work on
Hey, I'll take that because you get used to you recommended us to them
We can tell we start getting pain. We get our alerts throughout
You know, this is one of your passions. It is. It's you're very much making sure that as much media is available to it as can be because
This is something you are passionate about
Very much so and the thing is I you know
Documentaries and especially this year's documentaries are
There's always kind of a thread that runs through themes that you that I don't think you're intentional, but are
are
there and
The theme the theme really this year was it's about people
That you don't that you know, but you don't necessarily know when just walked by us. Yes
What a great interview that was oh my gosh. Okay, I could I could I could let them still talk at the morning
One I was right about to do the whole two hours. Oh, yeah. Well, any body was gonna have to do two
I saw what they're here from six days and he was like wow
I was like, oh no, you don't have to hide
You see with us for 45 minutes
And I was like just I'm just glad to go. Oh, I'm so glad. Yeah, he was so great. He was so great
And you think about a lot of the people that we've had here and all the film festivals that we've done at the angelica
You know, we've had Marylyn rice cub on the show. Yeah, we've had
Um, was it Nancy Cartwright
The voice of bark Simpson. Oh, yeah, probably. Yeah, we had her on one year
Um, we had both of them on at the same time if I remember correctly
They were they were promoting a film together
You know, just getting to people just don't understand it. We talked about this earlier on the show
The rich arts that Dallas has yeah, and the celebrities that it show up for these things
You know, this is we the John Landis incident
Yeah, when I got Lord and Miller sitting here and John Landis is in between them and
Time stopped of course, they know Glenn Moore Shower
Leah Thompson like and I look back and I'm like we did that
But it's not for you. We don't get to do these things
You know, we we talk about it all the time and I will never not talk about it between you and Gary Murray
You guys were the you guys were the ones that opened all these doors
You know and don's association with them there and two we've been able to do things that
People you got I'm sorry Robby got to do what I know I'm still trying to figure it out
Yeah, no, we just talked about that, you know, it's
And a lot of it happens here at the Angelica too, and this is why I love the Angelica because
They do such amazing events and amazing things and keeping film alive and
And coming to the theater to watch that film in a communal
Atmosphere there's nothing like it in the world
You know you can stream whatever you want to friend of the shows that the adjordan's hiding over here
She's been taking pictures all night
And and in speaking of film itself we have to compliment Kelly's necklace
It actually looks like a film reel it is it's a mini. It's a mini reel. It's a short
See as many of these are what I did
But yeah, that's one of the things you all don't get to enjoy about Kelly Kelly has this fabulous sense of fashion and
Wonderman she's always got something fun to look at
Look at the pins. I know her roaring 20s. They're a silent film stars. Yeah. Yeah
So anyway, yeah, so I believe in conversation starters and
So I wear conversation starters. I think this is why I don't have a tattoo because I would want to change it all the time
But that's why the one I have is very small so I have a lot more room
Okay, because I'm getting my next one. I've decided probably after first of the year
So it's an addiction
I wouldn't say I'm addicted. I just think there's there's something else that I just would like to know no no no
She didn't say that you were addicted, but it becomes an addiction. That's fair
I mean, we definitely saw that at harvest moon a couple of weeks ago and shout out to the Donna who was one of the people that helped put that together
What a great show. I mean, I originally was only gonna have one tattoo when I got it at 19
And then I have one two three four five six. No, so you've gotten five in the last two years
Uh-huh. Oh
You see what I did there as I use public school map
public school map
Yeah, I don't see with private school math. We just pay somebody else to do it. Yeah
That's a good one. Do math
That was for Charlotte. Yes, I'm happy to own up to my age of 45
Man, it's all right. I tell people I'm old good for my age at 46
I got 30 more years. So my midlife crisis. So I'm good. I've got to all beat. I'm winning
You're always winning in life my friend. You are living the dream. We're just dreaming the life
Okay, I thought I had good genetics to let just heard that I actually thought Kelly was younger than me
See what they say laughter is the best medicine
Yeah, that's when Audrey Hepburn quotes her. Yes, I love pink thing is is yeah laughter is the best calorie burner
All right, let's do the plugs and get out of here
Shelley
Thank you Kelly. Thank you Bart for having us out here. We love doing this show
This is the one show that we always make sure we have to do because this was the first one
Yeah, you know, we were trying to figure out if this is six or seven
So 13 14 15 16 17 18 this is the seventh time
It's just where does it go like we're in season 10 now, which is still mind-blowing to me
So next July this thing will have been around for a decade
Which is absolutely mind-blowing and we're still loving it and we're so thankful for you and everything that you do
Let's just do the plugs and we're gonna let Kelly do her plugs first. Okay. I'm Kelly kitchens. I'm publicist and my
Website is Kelly kitchens PR dot com and it's kitchen spelled like the kitchen. Yes. Yes
But it's plural like the room but more of them and then PR as in public relations dot com
So I'm on Twitter at Kelly Kelly Jay kit
which I
Found Twitter before I figured I could use it for my business and so yeah, anyway
So and then uh what else?
Uh, how else do they get it? How can they get a hold of it? Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. My uh, it is
Kelly at Kelly kitchens PR dot com Kelly with why and
Um, that's pretty much it. All right, you can visit our website
www dot the clubhousepodcast.com
It's been a little bit slow lately, but things are about to start picking up because it is award season
Find out everything you need to know and some stuff you don't follow us on twitter at clubhouse show
Everything else instagram and facebook is the clubhouse podcast all three words in that order or you will wind up somewhere else
You can follow me on social media. Everything is yes that rob urban that is spelled e-r-v-i-n
I am fixed blade on all social media. Remember to catch our regular shows every Sunday on the vocal media network at the
o-k-a-l now
dot com and the end the app and that is normally at seven eastern four Pacific
I'm general home on instagram
And the bellowing from the back coming in hey, hey real fast. Yeah, with tomorrow. Can I just one of my four? No, okay?
It's only the clubhouse podcast stop trying to wheeze a lot of stuff
You lost
I'm the commissioner of the bet and the bet. I know I
I'm still doing it. I just didn't know I wanted to get a weasel suits right
But hey next Sunday, I'm a birthday and we're in my part. We're gonna heen in the whole thing and it will be untucked
Yes, it will be in five dollars
No, like we got to fill Kelly in
So the Patriots played the Steelers and we wanted to be NFL and because Don lost for four straight episodes
He has to wear his jerseys untucked because he doesn't small child and wears his jerseys
And if he doesn't it's a twenty five dollar penalty and he still has to do it for four four shows
So because he talks his jerseys in and it drives these two crazy. I don't rightly care
But it drives them crazy. So he has to wear them untucked under the age of 10 you're allowed to tuck in a jersey after that
It's just weird, but unless you're in the spring. Are we splitting here? Okay, if you're on the team
Yeah, if you're on if you're being paid
Let it go. He's got real quick. Let him do his plugs. Let him do his plugs. Yeah, if I could finish
All right, and on Twitter Don don't yell. I'm at Igboonu IG be when you you you
Don't the heart markers just trying to do a show over there. Well, I keep telling you don't yell. Okay
Well, let's stand with me and they also email me Don that's a clubhouse podcast
If you would like this madness, it's your particular event. That's how you do that
You email Don you can email me questions comments concerns tell me to go pound sand
I am Robert the clubhousepodcast.com
Charlotte Parker's on Pinterest. I'm trying to follow Cynthia's camera as it moves
Because we're morally obligated to plug
Charlotte's stuff
Faith is at the house waiting on Don. Sean is actually at the house getting ready for Halloween
And they have a really creepy clown Marie on their front door. I hate it so much
I literally when I when I knocked on the door
I literally went to the side in case there was one of those sensors that would like scream at me if it saw me
Yeah, it's creepy. I hate it. So very very much
Our normal show at sunday night seven eastern four Pacific is your one stop shop for all things pop culture
Also remember if you're a fan of pro wrestling the cheap pop cast every Sunday normally at five thirty eastern tomorrow
We'll be at three thirty eastern because tomorrow's hell in a cell
There are only four matches on this card right now
So we're not really I'm pretty much determined unless we add at least three more matches to this card
By the time we go on air we'll do picks but they won't count because it doesn't make it any fun
It's a four-hour pay-per-view. It's also not fair to anybody who can't make it. I agree
I agree with you fully and completely
Thank you again to everybody here at dock you fest come out check out some amazing films
Mark just walked up. Kelly's loving husband
So until next time for all of our guests and the Empire. I'm Rob
Clubhouse is closed. Brittany Palmer has been very socially active these last couple of weeks