iTunes Exclusive Episode Denial

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Greetings Empire member and or members. If you are hearing the sound of my voice, it means
the following conditions have been met. At least once in your life, you have listened to the
Clubhouse podcast live. Every Sunday night, seven Eastern, four Pacific, your one-stop shop
for all things pop culture. But it also means you subscribe to the show on iTunes because
it's time for another outtune exclusive baby.
The 244th one of these things. Welcome. My name is Rob. I am the Executive Club Producer
of the Clubhouse podcast. And I enjoy a little bit of a courtroom drama every once
and again. But I'm not alone for this episode. Joining me across the desk as he tends
to do from time to time is the official fact checker of this show. And a man was a bit of
a history buff. I don't know what you even know that about him. He enjoys a little bit
of history. You may know him as fun, don't go, but his mom and even don't
forward on what I'm going to call him, don't forward, welcome to start. Something in a court.
You may times I wasn't court when I was a peo. But you would be able to court a lot.
Oh, I live there. Whatever we do one of these things, it is to review something. And
this is no exception. Mick Jackson is the director we're going to talk about today. When
you find out what we're reviewing, you're going to be interested to hear about his resume
in comparison to this film. It is called Denial. Probably start this whole thing. Yes, sir.
Got to think Austin. Everybody at the Slyfox. See me. See me. See me. See me. See me. So
this is the first time that Mick Jackson has directed a feature film in about 14 years.
That's been a while. It's the first time that he's directed a feature at all in six years.
Because if you remember back in 2010, he directed a very critically acclaimed HBO film called
Temple Grandon with the clear dames or grindine. I can remember that. Let's say that. But
he also directed stuff like L.A. Story, which is kind of one of my guilty pleasure movies.
Yes, it is. Volcano. And he directed the bodyguard. Yep. This is the same guy. And
he's directing the film right now. It's called Denial. It stars Rachel Weiss, Tom Wilkinson,
Timothy Spall, Andrew Scott, Karen Perstorius, which we're going to talk about. I don't
much red. Very interesting tie with her in this film. We're going to talk about him.
Who just a minute? Karen Perstorius. Okay. You're going to talk about this here in just a minute.
This is based on the true story of Deborah E. Lipshdat. She is a professor in Atlanta,
who is from the Northeast. And she teaches on things like the Holocaust. And she is confronted
at one of her speaking engagements by David Irving, who is Timothy Spall's character. He basically
is called Denial because he is a Holocaust denier. And he basically upstages her at the
speeching engagement. Speaking engagement. I'm going to try to talk for you. Then she finds
just a little bit lighter. He decides he's going to sue her for the way she described him
in her book and the book company. And the public and the publisher, Penguin. But there's
a little twist to this because he files the suit in the UK. And the way the UK works is
a little bit differently than the way American justice system works. In the UK, the burden
of proof is on the accused not the accuser. And he may be wondering why the UK, they're
based in the UK. The publisher. So they had to do it in the UK. So she travels to London
to be a part of this trial. And she also has to have two different kinds of lawyers.
You have Andrew Scott's character, Anthony Jewish. You might remember him as see from
specter. Of course, he is kind of the guy that does a lot of the background stuff.
But he doesn't like take the stand to interview the witnesses. The guy that does that
is Richard Rampton played by the great Tom Wilkinson. He's got the way the wig and stands
up there and says, you, sir, you know, things like that. And that's what you need to know
about this film. And it kind of deals with the roadblocks that she faces from not only a
cultural standpoint, but from a personal standpoint as well. Because she is Jewish.
Correct. Like. So here's my thing. Let's go for it. Great story. Yes, big fan. This
thing's an hour 50. First time I looked at the watch, we were 40 minutes in. Okay. That's
a story. We were in a really good place about the first time I looked at my watch. That
should tell you, you know, although the first 20 minutes from a pacing standpoint, it's a
little bit wonky. It's not enough for me to say the wheels had fallen off. Like the wheels
stayed on. We were, if the road was just a little bumpy. But once this thing got its feet
under it, it was here, we go after the races. Wilkinson, this guy melts my brain. I am such
a fan of Tom Wilkinson. This guy could read the phone book and you have my money. Well,
you know, you're going to get with him. I'm sorry with why. Same with Paul. But if he got
my real WWE WWE that's called that's podcast.com. That's our website. I'll put it on the
spot. It's my shout out. Because yeah, he might be, it's a different kind of roll that he does.
And it's first, then he's no like the Harry Potter's. He's not stuck in that roll. He's able
to do other stuff. And he didn't think of the guy from Harry Potter. Like you were a
clip. He's Harry Potter, Harry Potter, Harry Potter, Harry Potter. Although he's slowly breaking
that mold. But, but not like, not like, spawn this. But yeah, he's fall in this film is so good.
Like, I hated him. Like, yes, I know with him with every fiber of my beans and he completely
sold it to me. But those for you know, you're going to get negative, they delivered absolutely yes.
Vice, I might disagree with you on. I like Rachel Vice a lot. I'm a huge fan. My problem is I couldn't
separate her from this character. She has a queen's accent, New York, the burrow. And it never
clicked for me. The, the, the, the, the, the, the accent never really clicked with with her in the character
for me. And I don't know if it's because I know she's British or I've seen her in so many other
things. There's nothing wrong with the performance itself. It's just, I couldn't, it took me out of
it just enough for me to go, I can't, I can't. But it's not the horrible. No, it's not the over-the-top.
It's not like, you know, the Mark Wahlper. We'll sleep at it. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's not my
erudoff and any polar doing, doing the Bronx beat on Saturday Night Live. Exactly. But it was just enough
to take me out of it. But fortunately, everybody around her was so good. I want to admit up for her
because she was good. It's just I couldn't get past the accent with her. I agree with you that
Spall was absolutely amazing. I, and I even said this to friend of the show, Dave Scott, who was
sitting with me at the screening. Giving what's going on in this country right now.
There are people that will probably draw some parallels between David Irving and somebody and I don't
want to say his name. But very lives in his own world and what I say is acceptable and I don't
understand why you don't accept it. You know where I'm going with this. But it's a political figure. Yes.
Okay. Well, a pseudo political figure. But I think that it's a, it's a, it's a really well-done film.
There's a lot of deep emotion to this that it really conveys the frustrations on almost everybody.
There's one person. I went one character. I wish they would have gone deeper into.
And here's where we're going to talk about her. Carrying up a story space Laura Tyler. She's
fresh out of out of law school. And this is her first case. Now, first of all, before we get to that
part that does that name ring a bell to you at all. Don't, don't click it. Okay. No, not the top of my head.
You've seen her in another film recently with Rachel Vise. Something called the light between
oceans. Oh, she's the adult daughter. Okay. All right. I was wondering if you recognize her now because
you did get to see that film. We like to call that iTunes exclusive number 233. But I would have
liked to have seen more about her character because you could tell there was, there was something
behind because when they first go to visit Irving, when they go to his home, you can tell like she's
ready. She like, she's got that look like if I could punch you, I would. And then there's a
couple of scenes where you see certain glances into her character. I would have liked to have seen just
little bit more about what she was going through because she didn't understand why. And I got
that point because it's like, why she's so mad? What's the backstory on this besides the obvious?
Yeah. What has her so motivated? Yeah. You know, but maybe it's not one thing like at the end
when the trial was ending and it's that she's listening to the tapes and in her bedroom and
get that. I would have liked to have known more about that because you could have only added maybe
five minutes to the film at most to explain that. But I thought overall it's a it's a very good
film. I would it's probably in my top 15 to 20. I don't have the list on me right now. But at the end of
the year, we always go over our top films and productions of the year. So you may hear this thing
bit thrown out there. Just as maybe an honorable mention outside of my top 10. But a very well done film.
I'll tell you the and you and I both agree in both of our written reviews, which are both featured
at www.theclubhousepodcast.com, which is our website. The scene where they're doing the research
and they travel to Auschwitz. Oh, there's two two things about that. Number one could not have
been shot more gorgeously. Oh, not possible. No. Number two and probably the boldest choice made
in this film. And I don't know if you noticed this. First of all, scored done by Howard Shore.
The man's in all time. First ballot hall of Famer. We know that. But the fact that 90% of that
entire sequence that was shot that was that was Auschwitz. No music. Shot completely dry.
I know. I thought that was a very bold choice and it paid off big time. Because it gave you
that feeling of just aloneness that they were conveying and I thought it was a brilliant choice.
Especially with a guy like Howard Shore that can write it can compose a song on you.
I'm going to say this on the Auschwitz thing. I put on there that had a good looking everything
showbund in well and all that and it didn't really need it. Something fancy. But for some reason
that that's seen really stuck out with me. I've seen documentaries on it and I've seen what's
going on here and there and about it. But this one really hit me hard because they did it right.
Absolutely. Absolutely. No, no, no music like you said. Just notice that. That may have been one of
the reasons. But what really got me is when Wilkinson's character is going through Auschwitz.
You don't want anybody gets there. He's already there and he's like walking to perimeter and
it's like something. It's like you were there with him. Like the fly on the wall and it's just trying
to convey. And then when you see the story, okay, the guy says, oh, it never happened ever happened.
But then that scene where he's in the museum part, like a made museum part, not just the old
buildings. Right. Like you see a memorial type. Yeah. And you see those huge amounts
piles of shoots and the leather satchels in the sand. But the names on him. And you just look at that
and go, okay, that was real. That was Auschwitz. That's something. If you go and take the tour,
you're going to see that. And you just look at that and go, how can some idiot think that this
never happened? Just look at this and say, to this idiot, look at this, look at this, nothing said,
no music, no, nothing, just look at this. And here's the truth. There's only proof you need you,
idiot. It's and you feel the emotion that the characters feel. And I think that was part of
the brilliance of this film is they don't pull punches. You know, when there's a scene where
they're coming out of the courtroom and and Deborah's asked to basically just sit there and
not, they're not going to put her on the stand. They don't want her, you know, if you know the
story, you know how this works out. But what are the survivors approach us her in the Fourier
of the courtroom? And she's like, we need to be put on the stand and they won't put them on the
stand and you, you not only feel the frustration that they feel, but you also on a certain level,
even before you know you get it from the other side, you get it from the other side. And I think that
was the beauty of this is you felt the emotion from almost every angle of her. You, yes, we want
to put you on there, but we don't want to to protect you. And the film is based on her book.
So, I mean, these are her accounts of all of these things. I would tell you
if I had more time to read, this film would make me want to read the book, which is a rare thing.
Usually once I see a film like, I don't even read the book because I'll film. This is the kind of
film that would make me want to read the book. And here's what's the weird part. I was interested.
Mm-hmm. I still said, in my room, the WWW, that's called usplakas.com. Still our website,
that the movie flowed very well, but it was slow. And usually it's a bad thing. Right.
But for this movie, it's not. See, for me, it didn't. I thought it was a slow-paced film,
but that didn't matter. That's the weird part. It's good matter. That's a good thing. That's a good
that's unique about it. Okay, let's be honest. Is this going to be for the kids with the clothes
in the hair? Overall, if they have a choice to see this or to see the new Marvel film on the same
way, you know, I'm going to be honest, it's not going to be tailored to the young crowd of the
teen crowd. They're not going to get a bunch of high school kids together and say, hey, let's go
see, instead of seeing sausage party or some other film suicides, go out, they're going to go,
oh, let's see this instead. It's not going to be tailored, but that's fine. But they sure,
yeah, they should. I'm not saying that. It's not tailored for them, but deal with that's fine.
And some kids just might say, do you want? I still, I'm not going to go with the group this
time, but next time I want to see this film, or I'll see it some other time. It's not going to be
tailored for the young crowd, but that's fine. You can put it on the shelf, but don't put it on the shelf.
Yes, yes, yes. I mean, if I've got a downside, it's going to be, and it's not that
vice didn't do it. Well, I just couldn't, I couldn't connect it to. I also think the last 20
seconds could have been trimmed out of it. That the last shot of the film seemed a little awkward
to me. There's a point where it should have ended and there was a point that it did end because
I think it reinforced something that didn't have to be reinforced necessarily. But that's not going to,
you know, that didn't make me go, oh, you know, like it may be like, okay, I see what you did there,
but, you know, it's a thing. Anything else we want to talk about before we put it, go ahead and
do the final one. I think we're good. All right, the way we do the final analysis on this show.
We're not going to give you thumbs up thumbs down. We're not going to give you letters, numbers,
highroglyphics, and anything like that. And we're going to ask two questions. Question number one,
is would we see this film again? If the answer's no, then we're done here. But if the answer's
yes, then we were going to ask the question, how far are you willing to go to see it? And from
best to worst, here is the spectrum. Full price to the theater, twilight, Matt and A, early morning,
second run at the dollar theater, Netflix Red Box cable. I'm sorry, Red Box, Netflix cable, my apologies.
Darwin, would you see this again? Yeah, I would. How far are you willing to go? I'd say Matt and A.
So you're right there on the precipice. Yeah, of the upper echelon. Yes.
Matt and A, possibly possibly even a twilight. But yeah, it's good. I would definitely see this again.
I think I'm going to agree with you. I think a good Matt and A show. Again, this is another film.
We've had a lot of films later that we've said are great discussion films. This is one of those
films that you can see that maybe go have dinner somewhere afterwards and kind of talk about these things.
It's a wonderfully told story visually beautiful. Well done. I'm kind of kind of interested to see
where this film takes itself in three to four months. Is it going to get any recognition?
I'm not going to put it in the best picture category. But I think there's some potential here,
especially screenplay or some like screenplay or for small.
Don't be shocked if you find Timothy Spall in some best supporting actor or possibly even the music.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. How are you doing amazing job on this short? I'm sure you're on the score. I can't talk today.
The film is called denial before we end this thing. Yes, we have to think Austin and everybody at Slipbox.
See, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, we don't have a huge fans of our friends, all of our vendors.
But especially our friends in Slipbox who give us the opportunity to see films and tell you about them.
Show you the plugs. Yes, do it. All right. Visit our website. It is still www.theclubhousepodcast.com.
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I just keep subscribing on iTunes and you get everything. That's how we roll.
So until next time, for Don for the Empire, I'm Rob. Clubhouse is close. Pretty Palmer. What's up?