Wallace Shawn on Princess Bride Secrets, Socrates & Skipping TV for 50 Years | The Clubhouse 17-18

What's up, everybody? It's Rob. We are off this week, but I wanted to give you a little bit of something in the meantime.

What I like to do when we have those off weeks is share some of the Q and As that I posted over the last few years, and this one's a great one. Couple of years ago, I got to sit down with the great Wallace Sean. You may know him from the princess bride, but he's done so much more.

And we get to talk about that because he has at least two selections in the Criterion collection. And since November is the 50% off sale at Barnes and Noble for all Criterion titles, I thought this would be a good time to share this with you guys. So from Retro Expo, a great show.

Check it out coming in April. This is my time with the great Wallace Shawn. Alright.

Retro Expo. How we doing? How we holding up?

Thank you guys for playing Simon Says with us. We're gonna do it after this one too. My name is Rob.

I'm one of your moderators this weekend, and I've got the coolest back to back panels of all time. Joining me right now, you know him, you love him, you can't live without him. Ladies and gentlemen, mister Wallace Shawn.

Come on up here, my friend. Think you put your stuff down, sit wherever you want. How are you, sir?

Well, we'll see. We'll see. How's the show been for you so far?

Oh, it's been lovely. I've met half of these people already. It's great.

Also, efficient. If you've met half of them already. I don't know if I could meet half of them the whole weekend.

So, we have so much to talk about But what I love is I was doing my research for you, and we've got some bottled water in there as well, if you'd like one. Before there was acting for you, there was writing. Has writing always been your first love?

Well, I... Yes. I mean, I have a life as a writer that is goes along with a different personality sort of goes along geographically with a different place.

I mean, I live in New York City and my friends there know me as a writer and I'm I'm quite mysterious at that in that city. Then I often go to Los Angeles and I become a completely different person and the people who know me there don't know that I write. And they see me as an actor.

And I have a more fun personality there and people like me more. But... I don't know about that.

But... Yes. I lead a confusing confusing life.

As a writer, when you are acting with someone else's material, how is it to separate your writing brain from your acting brain? Is that something you think about? Well, when I'm acting and if I'm not, if I'm doing something where I think the writing is a little weak.

And maybe the writer, usually if I think it's weak, then maybe the writer doesn't, they might not notice if I fixed it a little bit. Usually, if I think it's... I mean, for instance, I just did...

We just finished doing the TV show Young Sheldon. Very nice. And that show is very perfectly written.

So, I was never tempted to fix it. And I never did. The writers would become hysterical if you did.

Because if you made a mistake, everybody knew because it was less good. So, yeah, as a but usually, I don't, I've had the good fortune. I've had a lot of good fortune.

A weird amount of good luck in my life. And I mean, far, the Fair enough. The years that are that I'm about to experience will be worse.

But yeah, have usually been able to turn down things that I didn't like very much. I mean, I get to read the script before I do things and if I feel it's too nauseating, I don't do it. And I've had the good luck so that I haven't had to make too many painful choices between leading the life that I would like and doing work.

Sometimes, you have to say, well, I would really like to have that money but this is too nauseating. Now, they don't really... I mean, the people don't offer me the more awful things, really, usually.

But to yeah, I've I've So once I doing it and I've committed myself to doing it, I'm not judging. You know, I'm. Okay, no, it's fair.

I'm I'm just doing my best which by the way in case any of you have done it or you haven't tried it, it's it's actually acting is extremely difficult and unlikely that you're going to do a very good job. So, you have to put everything you've got into it, really. I mean to say it's acting is difficult because you're supposed to portray real life And actually all of the people who are watching you are experts because they actually live and they're human beings too.

And they have pretty good taste in judging whether you portray human life realistically and actually, it's quite hard to do if you're acting because the situation you're in is not real. And if your job is to walk in and you're supposed to work in an office and your line is, hello, everybody. How's it going?

It might seem easy but it actually is not an office and you don't actually know the people. So to actually go in and say, hello, everybody. How's it going?

Realistically, it's not easy. When you were first starting out, whether writing or acting, was there anyone you looked to? Was there was there somebody that that was your inspiration when you were starting?

You mean someone that that I knew? Or or Well, that you admired and and inspired you to get into this industry. Well, I liked...

I mean, I I did read plays when I was quite young. And yes, suppose the writers of those plays inspired me. Did you have a favorite?

Well, when I was quite young, I I read plays by a guy called Eugene O'Neill who was very gloomy playwright and and a wonderful playwright. An American playwright and I as a young man, I saw plays of Samuel Beckett, an Irish playwright, and Harold Pinter, a British playwright. And, yes, they they did inspire me, I would say.

I did think something like, yes, I would like to do that. And you went to, you have a BA from Harvard College, you spent some time at Oxford, did those, were you already kind of in a mode of how you wanted to write at that point, or did those experiences enhance it that much more? Well, really, at that time, I was thinking of more about political things than art.

I was... I've gone back and forth in my life. Even on certain days I, you know, there are days when the political world is all I can think about.

And at that time, I thought maybe I would, you know, do something in the, what you might call the real world professionally. Maybe I would you know, be a civil servant of some kind or try to work at the UN. And I even when I was 20, I thought you know, why shouldn't I go into politics?

You know, run for office and my my roommates in a way made fun of me and said, oh, do you do you want a motorcycle escort? And now, looking back on it, I sort of think Yeah, I I'm I regret that my friends and I didn't take the idea seriously today, I sort of think, yeah, I could've run for office. Why not?

You know, and and occasionally, I see somebody, I don't know. I mean, what, I don't know who I would be if I were a politician. I guess I'm older than Bernie Sanders.

But but I you know, I could picture if I had put my life in that direction, how great. I think anybody who feels like it should do it. Because the people who are doing it are are It's a thing.

It's a thing. It's a I think we can leave it at it's a thing. You know, I think, you know, anybody who feels, yeah, I'd I'd like to do that.

It might be interesting. I mean, the worst that could happen, you wouldn't get nominated. If...

Which is kind of the opposite of your other profession, where it's an honor to be nominated. You know, but you... Or you might lose.

Mhmm. But, I mean, in my city of New York, there's Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. She was working as a waitress.

Somebody said, why don't you run for congress? And she won. And she's doing great things.

So, you know, it's a... It's it's interesting to think of it. I am loving this conversation, and I could do this all day.

However, we are here for you guys. I got a mic here. I got a mic here.

If you've got a question you wanna ask mister Sean, we are happy to talk about it. We got till forty five after the hour. And that's all I had to say.

That was awesome. Please, what's your name? Catherine, what you got?

Oh. Just going right after it, right out of the box. Yeah.

To be honest, I just improve the grammar. I mean, I'm really a former Latin teacher and a writer and quite a somewhat old fashioned in my grammar preferences. And usually if it's ungrammatical, I sort of think, well, my character would never say that.

So, I would say it's a little bit more grammatically. What's your name? You you couldn't get away with sort of suddenly If you're supposed to play Uncle George, you couldn't just say, I'm not Uncle George.

I'm Aunt Jane. I mean, you you have to stick with the basic plot line or you shouldn't have taken the script in the first place. How about a hand for that question, you guys?

What's your name, my friend? Is it not working again? Is it muted on the board by chance?

It's not working. Alright. Just talk loud.

Okay. We'll I'll talk loud. We'll figure it out.

Okay. Hi. I'm Kelly.

I'm from here in Plano. Oh, okay. Okay.

And... Oh, I think it's on now. Yeah.

We're good. We're good. There we go.

I... First of all, I have to tell you, my... I'm a...

I especially love you in Clueless. Alright. And love that.

And, of course, young Sheldon, I was really rooting for you and me, Ma. Yes. Oh my goodness.

Me too. And my question is, I've always wondered this because I've watched those episodes a million times. When you first meet Mima, you tell her your middle name is Whitney.

But then later in the series, you're John Burgess Sturgis. So why did your middle name change? Do you know?

They thought nobody would notice. And as I said before, we are rolling tape. Credit IMDb.

I'm shocked. Well, I just They Well, you've proved them wrong now. I always wondered if they were just trying to get it to rhyme or Oh, I think they thought it was a better name and they thought and I mean, it was mentioned.

You know, they said, well, we didn't call you this in the first episode but but we really want you to be Burgess Sturgess. John Burgess Sturgess. So, you know, that's what we're doing.

Excellent. About that, you guys? That's like an Easter egg.

I love it. Know, this is business history, everybody. This is.

Very good. We're going to bounce to this side. What's name, my friend?

Name is Mike. Mike, what you got for us? Well, I'm of the films that I really enjoy that you're in, I think it's kind of underrated, is Capitalism, A Love Story?

Oh, wow. Deep cuts. I love it.

Yeah. And I was wondering if you look around now and you consider what's going on, is there anything, have you changed your point of view in the last fifteen or twenty years or do you have any ideas versus what you said in the film? Well, I don't...

Did we make that movie fifteen years ago? Can't. It was a while ago.

Whenever I... Time's a construct at this point, isn't it? Yeah.

Yeah. It was five years ago. It was a decade and a half.

We don't even know anymore. Yeah. I can't tell.

I mean, when I think something was five years ago, it was twenty years ago. Tell it. But that was a movie by the great Michael Moore.

And it was about, you know, the system that we live under, capitalism. I don't know. I mean, I think in all of the years, since it does become more and more clear, but nobody fully understands it that the money is the money floats to the top more and more and more in a way that's unusual in in history, really.

And I grew up in an opposite type of period when the middle class was doing better and better in each generation somehow magically was doing a bit better than the generation before. Now, the fact that that's not true is you know, made everybody depressed. People don't if you're desperate and poor, you don't feel hope, obviously, and if you're middle class, you don't feel hope because you're not really likely to do better than your parents and your kids are not likely to do better than you.

And it's led to a demoralization and depression about the way our society works. And I don't know. Michael Moore is so funny.

There was a lot of joking in that movie. But it gets more and more difficult to joke, really. My sense of humor is taking a beating.

For sure. It's yeah. So, I mean, that's a good movie, though.

It's... All of Michael Moore's movies are are interesting. Very...

You know, you would not be bored to see them. They're very, very interesting and smart. How about big hair for that question, you guys?

Bounce back over here. What's your name? My name is Ashley.

Ashley, what can we do for you? Alright. Mister Hall from Clueless.

Yes. As well as mister Feeney by William Daniels on Boy Meets World. That's my two tier teachers on screen.

Help me pursue a degree in education, become a teacher. You are also a teacher, but did you have a teacher who inspired you in middle school or high school that helped you on your journey? More than one.

I'll tell you about one I was Yeah, I did have a teacher in the fifth grade who sort of took me to one side and said, well, you know, you are the class clown and that's good. We actually had two class clowns. Chevy Chase was in my class.

He was his kind In the fifth grade? Yes. Oh, man.

He was in, you know, one kind of clown. I was the other kind of clown. But we both were the class clowns.

But she said to me, you you are a class clown and that's great. You make everybody laugh. It's terrific.

But you have a serious side. And this is a book. I want you to read this book and write a play based on this book.

And it was a book about the Greek philosopher, Socrates. And he was accused of corrupting young people by speaking too truthfully and he was given the at that time instead of direct capital punishment, they they gave you a poison to drink for yourself. Which you had to do.

And and in the book, it was about Socrates drinking the poison surrounded by his disciples who were his friends. So I wrote a play about myself surrounded by my actual friends who may not have thought of themselves as my disciples. But that's how I cast them.

And I played Socrates. And it was a philosophical sort of play. And it was about making courageous choices.

And so, I mean, the rest of my life, I've been catching up to the play. I mean, the plays that I have written are not completely unlike that play that the teacher basically led me to write. I would say my plays are more like that play I wrote when I was 10 than anybody else's plays.

And so, she set me on that path, to be honest. But I mean, I've had, I mean, teach, I idolize teachers and I've had many great ones, but that's the one I suppose that literally told me to do this, and I'm still doing it. Nice.

Very nice. How about a hand for that question, you guys? We'll bounce back over here.

Your name, my friend. Hi, my name is Duncan Brannen. Alright, Duncan.

What you got? Hi, mister Sean. I wanted to ask you, obviously knowing that everything we read on the Internet, it's not, you know, it's true or not true.

When you did Princess Bride, I, you know, I I fell in love with with your acting career at at that moment and then just had to start finding out whatever I could about you. But the scene that blew me away, of course, was the classic blunder scene. The...

There's such a great build in that scene. The the the chemistry between you and and mister Elways, it was just so sharp. The the rapport that you built back back and forth there.

I was wondering, one, how many takes did you guys have to do for that scene in in order to just nail or did you just come out there and just slam it in one time or? Well, that was a very difficult scene for those who saw that movie, The Princess Bride. A lot of dialogue.

I think a couple of us have caught it a couple times. Yeah. It's...

I'm glad that it went well in the end for you. It was... Yeah.

It was a very difficult scene. And it... I suppose we spent a day and a half on it.

Wow. And so, you know, it probably lasts, I don't know, ten minutes. It's quite a long scene for a movie.

Yeah. But we did spend a day and a half. And I did...

It was it was definitely not a day and a half that I look back on as easy or fun. It was... Had its nightmarish aspect of you know, that it might not come off.

And it was an important scene in the script. And I liked the director and Carrie Ellis and I I hoped it would come off. But it was not looking all that promising.

Yes, we did it many, many, many times. I mean, you don't do the whole scene at once. Right.

And it's no secret that I didn't was not the easiest I mean, I was told in advance by my agent at that time that person who they really wanted was Danny DeVito, not me, which was... If any of you ever become talent agents, I'm giving you a tip. That was not helpful.

Because I I was I had actually already worked with Danny DeVito at that time. And had a, of course, you cannot predict how an actor is going to do anything. I mean, if they invent and it may be happening as we speak, robots that can imitate us, then you possibly could predict it.

But you really can't predict it, but I had an idea of what Danny DeVito would be doing basically with every line. I did sort of... And I knew his sense of humor, and I knew my sense of humor, which was not like his and was not like the writers.

So in many parts of that scene, did ask the director, Rob Rhyner, who himself is a very funny actor. Well, how would you do it? And he would do it, and I would imitate him, which I've never done in any other movie.

Wow. It is my most popular movie. So, I mean, people like me best in that movie.

I don't. But other people have. And the credit should really go to the director.

Because... Yeah. I think my best moments were ones...

Or the ones that people like the most. I'm sort of was imitating him. And that's not typical.

I've never seen any other movie where that was happening. It's a great question. Thank you so much.

We're gonna bounce back over here. Thought you did a great job too. Your name?

Hello, mister Sean. My name is Lance from the Dallas area. My favorite Star Trek spin off, DS nine.

Yes, sir. The Grand Negus. Love me some DS nine.

Amazing character. Two part question, how did the how did... Did the producers pick you for that role?

And and and how difficult was it for you to to portray that character and all the prosthetics you had and everything you had to put on for that character? Time and time again, it looked so so much on you. How how difficult was that role to play?

Yes, they did pick me. You have to ask them why. Tell it.

They did pick me and, well, me, it was physically challenging to, you know, wear three or four hours worth of makeup. But as an actor, it was liberating because I sort of was, I don't know. I felt a total freedom from any kind of self consciousness or I wasn't you know, self consciousness is is an enemy of acting and hidden behind all of that, I could be anything in the world.

I was totally free and I mean, that caused the problem that the guy, maybe the guy who hired me, I don't know, but a producer came down from the Executive Tower and told me what I didn't really know because I didn't ever own a TV you understand Star Trek is serious. It's not supposed to be funny. And I I was shocked.

I I I mean, I didn't know that. How would I have known that? I thought it was hilarious.

So I I sort of said, oh, really? Wow. And then the the guy went back into the tower and then the director said to me, just just ignore him.

You know, we love what you're doing and just keep doing it. And that's what I did. But no, I mean, I look back on it as a time when I could just I had no...

Also the character was so outlandish. The makeup was so outlandish that the struggle to be strictly realistic that I described before was not a burden. It could...

I couldn't be, you know, with that face. How could realistic could you be? So, no, it was not difficult.

Thank you. Great question, you guys. Come on.

Back over here. Your name, my friend? Aaron.

Aaron, what you got? Hey, mister Sean. I recently saw my dinner with Andre for the first time.

Brilliant film. Was curious, did you have a favorite scene or from that film or a favorite thing you wrote into it? I don't dare to ask, but but some of you have probably heard of it, seen it, no, yes.

Definitely two and a half people have. It's My Dinner with Andre, 1981 fits well into the retro concept. It's what can I say if you a lot of people are very glad they saw it and others regret it?

I don't know what to say. It is there's a lot of talking in it. And it's kind of me and a friend talking.

And some people like it so much. They've seen it again and again. Not this man, obviously, but some some people you know, have seen it, you know, maybe with their partner or their friend and one of them liked it, the other one didn't.

Anyway, it's my most personal movie, I suppose. I kind of wrote it and yeah, I mean, it's hard to say a favorite part because it is I think my favorite part is the way it goes from the beginning to the end. It has it sort of develops.

You're going to at the beginning, it looks like nothing will ever change, but the people change. And I'm not gonna give away the plot. I mean, it has no plot, but it has a...

It it does have a... So it's easy to not give it away. Right?

There you go. It's easy not to give it away. But it has it's it has a development.

It does there is change in it. And I suppose my favorite part of it is the way the two guys, me and the other guy change. And it's an I mean it's unusual.

I'll just disclose the fact. I'm still working with that guy. You know, spoke to him two days ago.

So we've worked together for over fifty years. Wow. That is rare in this business as well.

Great question. Thank you so much. We're gonna bounce over here.

We're gonna get to as many questions as we can because we only got ten minutes left. My name is Russ and it's a related question. Good.

The life of a playwright is tough. It's not easy as many people seem to think and so, wonder if you have a particular memory of being a playwright or a particular line from anything that you've written that you're particularly proud of? And if I could sneak in another one, are you and Andre planning another project together?

Well, yeah, Andre and I are are, yeah, we're working on a play but not the same type of, I mean, something quite different. We've made three sort of movies. Right.

Criterion collection, get it. Box set. Yeah, you can buy the box set of of Andre, Gregory, and me.

Two of the movies are movies of plays. And again, I don't know who you all are and and you and you may not know yourselves well. I don't know.

I don't know myself well. I don't know. Take the risk.

Watch the first twenty minutes and if you don't like it, then you don't have to go on. And there's a channel, The Criterion Channel, that is a streaming channel. It's got a lot of good things.

And some people don't think that they would like weird movies. And they watch one. And they they say, oh, this is delicious.

I like it. You know, it's like a strange... If someone says, well, have you ever been to an Ethiopian restaurant?

And, you know, you say, oh, I don't know. That sounds a little frightening. But maybe it's your favorite thing that you ever had.

Anyway, yes, we're... I mean, of course, death does eventually end all theatrical projects. But we're hoping.

Good. He's 90. I'm 80.

But we're we're doing our best. Great question. Thank you.

We're gonna bounce back over here. Your name? It's alright.

You're good. Hi. My name is Luna.

Alright. Luna, what's your question? What is your favorite animated movie voice role that you would voice again?

Your favorite voice over animated role that you'd wanna do again? Do you know one... I mean, it's hard to say favorites.

I wonder if anybody here knows the name of the one I'm thinking of because I don't remember the name, the title Disney released it. This is for the true animation buffs. Disney released the movie but they certainly did not back it up at all.

And it was by a kind of underground cartoonist. And it's it's a little... It's on the shocking side.

It's not quite for children. At least, unless their parents are quite unconventional. Did it have a cat who is the main character?

I see nobody is is... No? That was Oliver and Company was the animated one.

You had the Aristocats. It's not Prince the Cat. That was not Disney.

That was not Disney.... Associated with Disney. No.

This was actually released by Disney. Right. Around what time?

Do you remember? It must have been the nineties. Oh, now I'm totally freaking.

Well. Teacher's pet is is... Was a guess?

Wait. Yes. There you go.

Yes. That Nice call. Teacher's pet is extremely amazing looking and quite beautiful.

You don't remember the name of the artist? Because it was completely one guy's work. Teacher's Pet.

It's quite a brilliant It's a deep cut right there. I like it. Thank you for that.

There you go. We only have time for one more question. I'm so sorry, guys.

Your name? Hi. I'm Misty.

Alright. What you got for us? As a former Awkward Theatre kid and now a proud Awkward Theatre adult, reading about you, would you having distractions or hindered it by not having any inspiration or is it just kind of in the middle?

TV. Not not having a TV. Did it hurt you, hinder you, or did lie in the middle?

Oh, yes. Yeah. Not having to.

Well, not not having a TV, I think. What's kind of helpful in maybe not... Well, we all experience a kind of brainwashing from the minute we wake up in a way.

But television, if you don't ever see any, a lot of the regular kinds of brainwashing that that most people experience, I I mean, my girlfriend didn't like to look at TV and I was always afraid I would watch it all day long and all night long. So we sort of met in the middle by deciding we wouldn't have a TV. And I don't know.

So I spent... And then eventually computers, you... If you have a computer, you can see anything.

So I still don't have a TV, but because I have a computer, it doesn't quite... I'm not out of the loop in the way that I used to be. But missing the loop for forty or fifty years was beneficial.

I mean, I'm sure I didn't understand anything anybody was talking about for about forty years. Because people would be saying, well, that's just like Jim. And I would just not know Jim and not know what they were talking about and not care.

So I missed a lot. But, yes, I think it's... It it had some value for me.

Great question. How about for that one, y'all? We are just about out of time.

I cannot thank you enough for sitting down today. This was a fantastic conversation. I am so honored that you're with us.

This is a Stolen Water Media production.