No Guardrails: Cowboys Draft Stakes and a Sport Spinning Out | Just Wondering with Norm Hitzges
Norm Hitzges examines the Dallas Cowboys' draft strategy, focusing on their two first-round picks at number 12 and number 20, and the critical need to address defensive holes. He also explores the chaos in college football's transfer portal, highlighted by Kansas State coach Chris Climent's retirement due to stress from unrestricted player movement and agent involvement.
About this episode
Key takeaways
- The Cowboys have no second or third round picks and must hit on their two first-round selections to address a defense that underperformed in 2024
- Potential targets at pick 12 include middle linebacker Sunny Styles from Ohio State, safety Caleb Downes from Ohio State, or defensive end Harold Baines from Miami
- At pick 20, the Cowboys could address cornerback with options like Jermonde McCoy from Tennessee, Montserrat de Lane from LSU, Avion Terrell from Clemson, or Brandon Cise from South Carolina
- College football's transfer portal is out of control—Penn State's new coach Matt Campbell brought 29 transfers, including 21 from Iowa State; Oklahoma State signed 33 transfers with 15 from North Texas
- Kansas State coach Chris Climent, 58, retired after 35 years citing health concerns from player compensation demands, transfer portal chaos, and agent involvement destabilizing the sport
Chapters
- 0:00Today’s questions: the Cowboys draft and college football chaos
- 1:29Why the Cowboys must fix the defense through the draft
- 2:10The massive pressure on picks 12 and 20
- 3:01Why missing on these picks isn’t an option
- 3:53Sonny Styles and Caleb Downs: ideal defensive targets
- 4:40What happens if top targets are gone
- 5:23How quarterback movement could help Dallas
- 6:07Dante Moore’s draft uncertainty
- 7:02Cornerback options at pick 20
- 7:40Jermod McCoy and betting on recovery
- 8:18Defensive back depth in the mid-first round
- 9:16Trade-down scenarios to regain draft capital
- 10:08Why Dallas can’t afford another draft mistake
- 11:05Transition to college football’s transfer chaos
- 13:58Transfer portal numbers that don’t feel real
- 15:26Coaches bringing entire rosters with them
- 16:09Oklahoma State and Penn State transfer explosions
- 16:59Chris Kleiman’s retirement and warning signs
- 17:47Kleiman’s coaching resume and success
- 18:44Why the stress finally won
- 20:12“No one’s minding the store anymore”
- 21:36Agents, money, and the future of the sport
- 22:00Sponsors and closing thoughts
Q&A
Why are the Cowboys' first two draft picks so critical?
The Cowboys have no second or third round picks, so they won't make another selection until close to 100 picks later. Both first-rounders must be hits to address a defense that stunk last year.
What happened to Dante Moore before the draft?
The Oregon quarterback had a terrible game against Indiana in a national championship playoff game with a pick and three fumbles, which could cause his draft standing to tumble from a projected top-5 pick.
Why did Chris Climent retire from Kansas State?
Climent cited the lack of guardrails around player transfers, compensation deals, and agent involvement as creating too much stress. He told the Manhattan Mercury his blood pressure went through the roof and he feared having a heart attack or stroke if he continued.
How many transfers did Penn State and Oklahoma State each sign?
Penn State signed 29 transfers under new coach Matt Campbell, with 21 from Iowa State. Oklahoma State signed 33 transfers, with 15 from North Texas.
Episode notes
The Cowboys don’t have many chances — and that’s exactly the problem.
In this episode of Just Wondering, Norm Hitzges breaks down the Dallas Cowboys’ upcoming draft and explains why the pressure on their two first-round picks couldn’t be higher. With no selections in the second or third rounds, Dallas must hit on picks 12 and 20 to begin fixing a defense that simply wasn’t good enough last season. Norm walks through realistic draft scenarios, evaluates defensive targets like Sonny Styles, Caleb Downs, Harold Baines, and Jermod McCoy, and explains how quarterback movement at the top of the draft could quietly help — or hurt — the Cowboys’ plans.
Norm also explores trade-down possibilities at pick 20, outlining how Dallas might regain badly needed draft capital without sacrificing defensive help. The bottom line is blunt: the Cowboys cannot afford another draft miss. There’s no cushion, no waiting around, and no easy fix if they get this wrong.
Then the conversation turns to college football — and how the transfer portal has pushed the sport into complete chaos. Norm lays out eye-opening transfer numbers, including massive roster migrations following new coaches, and explains why the system has become unsustainable. The episode culminates with the story of Kansas State head coach Chris Kleiman, a wildly successful coach who retired early, citing the lack of guardrails, agent influence, and constant compensation demands as reasons he simply couldn’t continue.
It’s a sobering look at two football worlds — one fighting to rebuild carefully, the other spinning faster than anyone can control.
Chapters
00:00:00 – Today’s questions: the Cowboys draft and college football chaos
00:01:29 – Why the Cowboys must fix the defense through the draft
00:02:10 – The massive pressure on picks 12 and 20
00:03:01 – Why missing on these picks isn’t an option
00:03:53 – Sonny Styles and Caleb Downs: ideal defensive targets
00:04:40 – What happens if top targets are gone
00:05:23 – How quarterback movement could help Dallas
00:06:07 – Dante Moore’s draft uncertainty
00:07:02 – Cornerback options at pick 20
00:07:40 – Jermod McCoy and betting on recovery
00:08:18 – Defensive back depth in the mid-first round
00:09:16 – Trade-down scenarios to regain draft capital
00:10:08 – Why Dallas can’t afford another draft mistake
00:11:05 – Transition to college football’s transfer chaos
00:13:58 – Transfer portal numbers that don’t feel real
00:15:26 – Coaches bringing entire rosters with them
00:16:09 – Oklahoma State and Penn State transfer explosions
00:16:59 – Chris Kleiman’s retirement and warning signs
00:17:47 – Kleiman’s coaching resume and success
00:18:44 – Why the stress finally won
00:20:12 – “No one’s minding the store anymore”
00:21:36 – Agents, money, and the future of the sport
00:22:00 – Sponsors and closing thoughts
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Read Transcript
It's Wednesday, January 14th, and today, I'm just wondering about the Cowboys draft what they might do. And then, if you need more evidence of how nuts college football is, I've got it for you. And now a word from our title sponsor.
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For more information or to schedule a meeting, visit FluentFinancial.com or call 972-852-4800. The Dallas Cowboys have a lot of holes in their football team. Almost all of them on defense.
The offense produced well now, whether or not they keep George Pickens' another matter. But the offense produced well last year. It was the defense that stunk.
So the thinking is, and rightly so, that the Cowboys will use their draft picks, the two number ones they have, to support their defense. And I think that's good thinking. I think that makes sense, and the draft itself sort of plays out that way for the Cowboys.
Now we'll take you through some scenarios in this draft. But the importance of the two first rounders, number 12 and number 20, cannot be underscored enough. The Cowboys have no second round choice, and no third round choice.
After those two number ones, the Cowboys will wait close to 100 picks before they make another selection. And later on in this draft, after those two number ones, the Cowboys have one four, three number fives probably, including a couple of comps, and those are right at the end of the fifth round, and a seventh rounder. But the importance of hitting on those two number ones cannot be stressed enough.
Okay, let's go to the twelfth pick. I've got three players names for you. I personally believe that the Cowboys need a stay at home, run the defense, plug the holes, cover a running back, middle line backer.
And that's sunny styles out of Ohio State. Now will he get to the Cowboys, a little dicey, give a second possibility. From school, Ohio State, a safety that runs the field on defense, Caleb Downes, outstanding player.
Will he get to the Cowboys, a little more dicey than sunny styles? I expect Downes to go 7, 8, 9, 10 in this draft. But if Downes and styles aren't there when the Cowboys pick, well, that will necessarily mean that somebody else has gotten pushed down the draft, hasn't been selected, and pushed down the draft.
And for me, that might be Harold Baines, the defensive end from Miami. This is a really good player. And I think that's the area he's going to be taken, 12, 13, 14, 15.
Now two things, first, let's talk about what's happening in the picks before the Cowboys. Something I think really bad happened for the Cowboys in one of the national championship playoff games. Dante Moore, the quarterback for Oregon, was probably going to go off the board, at least in the top five, maybe number two, after Mendoza, the Indiana quarterback went number one.
But Moore had such a terrible game against Indiana, a pick, three fumbles, and he looked small. He almost looked frail when he looked at him. And Moore right now still hasn't declared for the NFL draft.
He's taking the last couple of days, and that's all they've got in the transfer portal. He's got a couple more days to decide whether or not he goes back to Oregon or declares for the NFL draft. Now, his problem of going back to Oregon, his Oregon has already signed what they feel will be their quarterback next year, and that's the kid Raiola transferring from Nebraska.
But if Moore goes in this draft, his standing could have tumbled badly, and that's not good for the Cowboys. You want Moore in this draft, and you want him to go in the top 11 picks. Because that forces one more player down to you.
That player could be downs, or it could be styles, or it could be veins. Okay, for me, I'd like styles. Nothing like downs, love downs, really love veins.
But it's the second number one where the Cowboys, I think, are in line to get their defensive back, a corner back. And not so sure you want to use both first round picks on defensive back, downs, and then later number 20 corner. There are four players there that will be available.
I think at least three of them will be available when the Cowboys draft at number 20. The most interesting name is a kid named Jermonde McCoy from Tennessee. Here's a story.
He was in line to be a top 10 pick in the draft, and then he blew out on ACL, and he did not play it all last year for Tennessee. And now he's in the draft. His workouts, combined workouts, pro day workouts are going to be critical here.
If he can fully work out yet, because if he can't, you're going to have to take Jermonde McCoy on faith that he'll fully heal. Now the Cowboys did that last year with the corner back, with the kid Ravel from East Carolina. And he looked a little dicey, but no, he just was activated in middle of the season and he had it, he had it, he had it on a bad defense.
But Jermonde McCoy is really interesting. Someone with real faith might even take him before the Cowboys pick at 12, though I think that's a bit of a longer shot. The other three corners, Montserrat de Lane from LSU, Avion Terrell from Clemson, and Brandon Cise from South Carolina.
The interesting is all of them figured to go in the 16 to 25 range. So the Cowboys might well look at pick 20 and say, hey, we can get our defensive back there. We can get our corner back there and lean more toward perhaps styles, whom I really like, or bans with the first pick if both of them are there.
Okay, let's go to the second scenario about the pick at 20. That's good pick. And while some quarterbacks may not go in the top three or four or five, as you go through round one, more if he's in draft.
And maybe the Alabama quarterback Ty Simpson will attract teams. Now the pick at 20 is just ahead of Pittsburgh at 21. And there's thinking that Pittsburgh might take the quarterback Simpson.
So might another team who wants him deal with the Cowboys. The Cowboys would drop down, hopefully just later in the first round and pick up another prime pick, a second, a third, a third and a fourth, something like that, a second and a fifth, that's a scenario that we should keep alive also. But we've finished this by saying, we cannot underscore enough.
Cowboys can't be drafting the Massey Smith here. They can't be drafting a Tyler Gytin here. They thought Luke's schoolmaker wouldn't take over if the Titan looks like schoolmaker's now losing his grip on the number two Titan positions.
And they took him on the second round. The Cowboys cannot have that happen. They have too many holes and they only have two picks in the first 100 plus players.
And if the Cowboys are going to turn this defense around, it's got to start with this draft. And of course free agency. If you really don't want to think the way I think in college football, well, we've got more information for you about our crazy that sport is getting.
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Just go to the website, fullmoonhealingco.com. The transfer portal for college football closes on Friday. That's where kids have the right to say, okay, I just want transfer, and they put their name in the portal.
And there are thousands, literally, literally. That's how crazy college football has gotten. Kids from a lot of lower places, North Dakota State, which is a pretty high, lower place.
Ferris State loads of places like that. They jump in the portal. Who's the portal winner so far?
By the way, the players from Miami and Indiana play in the National Championship game. They have an extra five days next week to jump in the portal. That way they can finish their whatever with Miami and Indiana.
And then if they choose, jump in the portal. Who's the winner so far? Who's gotten the best transfer classes?
Well, the blue bloods in Indiana. Can you believe we're calling Indiana a blue blood? It looks like they are.
Indiana, Texas Tech, which got a terrific quarterback named Saurpianna Cincinnati. And A&M, oh, you did well. And Clemson, which hasn't really participated much in the portal in the past, has jumped in.
They've gotten eight, nine pretty good looking players. But when we couldn't think of the transfer portal, we think in those terms. Oh, they got eight or nine players.
Oh, no, no. No, that's not true. The numbers are far greater than that.
Indiana and A&M and Texas Tech, they're at the Oakle home, they're all in double digits and transfers. When you're talking about quantity, well, we got two schools for you. At Penn State, they hired a new coach, Matt Campbell from Iowa State.
Matt Campbell has gotten 29 transfers in the Penn State. But check this, 21 of them from Iowa State. That's right, 21 players have left Iowa State to join Campbell at Penn State.
Good luck to the new guy at Iowa State, by the way. And then, then there's Oklahoma State. New coach, they're also Eric Morris left North Texas to go to Oklahoma State.
At last count, Oklahoma State had signed 33 transfers, 33. And 15 of them leaving North Texas State to stay up, to step way up the ladder in competition to Oklahoma State. 15 North Texas State players, including the North Texas State long snapper.
We've talked in the past here several times about how crazy this sport has gotten. But if you want to believe someone else from inside the sport, then I've got that person for you. He's Chris Climent.
In December, he quit, said coach at Kansas State. He retired. He's not going any place out.
He, he's a lifer. Chris Climent is a football coach. He started 20, no, I'm sorry, at 23 years old.
Listen to these outposts where Chris Climent climbed the ladder. Northern Iowa, Western Illinois, Kansas, Missouri State. Loris College, L-O-R-A-S, five years at Loris College.
Back to Northern Iowa, North Dakota State. And finally, the head coach at that power division one program. In five years in North Dakota State, Chris Climent went 69 and six.
I repeat 69 and six in his five years, he won four division one championships. And then on to Kansas State, tough place to coach. In seven years there, Chris Climent's teams have gone 54, and 34.
It went to five bowls. Could have been six this year, but the players voted not to go this year. He produced a big chain championship, a big 12 championship, I'm sorry.
And he developed good players. Terrence Newman, the former cowboy defensive back, yeah. Connor Beebe, the cowboy's current starting center.
They're Chris Climent X's. But now he's leaving because Chris Climent is fed up with college football. In his retirement, he said the lack of guardrails around players transferring, created just too much stress on the job.
He told the Manhattan Mercury, that's the hometown paper of Kansas State. Quote, I've been doing this for 35 years, but I'd die if I keep doing this job. I was going to have a heart attack, or I was going to have a stroke.
My blood pressure went through the roof. He told a newspaper that players keep wanting compensation deals. And they want to be able to enter the transfer portal to just field offers for other teams and that warring down again, a quote from Chris Climent.
I was kind of at my wit's end. I don't blame any of these kids. It's not their fault.
But you get done playing a game against Colorado and come Monday. Man, there's 20 players agents that want to know a number. How much they're going to get, or they're going to get in the transfer portal.
Chris Climent's 58 years old. He's incredibly successful. He had seven years left on his Kansas State contract.
This is a game Chris Climent loved. But he's now gone, driven into retirement by how terribly crazy college football has become. He's gone because no one's minding the store anymore.
And a game now taken over by the flightiness of 19 year olds. And a game now taken over by agents and money. And now a word from our title sponsor.
Today's episode has been brought to you by Fluent Financial. Retire earlier, live better. And by Bob's steak and chop house on lemon and Dallas and in Craig Ranch in McKinney.
Bob's a Dallas tradition for more than 30 years. If you've enjoyed just wondering, please hit follow and a fresh new episode will land in your mailbox. Early every Monday, Wednesday and Friday morning.
Should you know a sports fan who might like our work, please share our contact information with that person. Thanks for listening to today's episode of Just One Ring. I'm Norm Hitzges and know that every day, I'll be just wondering about something.
And I'm Mary Hitzges and I'll just be wondering too. This is a stolen water media production.