Stars’ Scoring Woes, Jason Robertson’s Future & Lindy Ruff’s Ghost | Robert Tiffin | YDC Ep 273

Nobody would have thought that I would be the one. Rhyner, sports talk. Oh, with a big mic.

Oh, okay. Alright. Yeah.

Okay. Now I get it. We got a lightning strike, boys.

What happened over there, Grego? We had a little lightning strike right outside the window. The Texas Rangers win the world series.

Alright. Alright. Here's a tip for all these Americano League teams.

Don't... Wait. You said tip.

Yeah. Tip. Okay.

With a p. I would Keep jamming. The ticket the ticket, colon, nothing but a big genetics jerk off set.

This is a cool night or what? I love somebody would hear that and go bullshit. I'm back.

I love the rangers too. Fond memories. Yes.

Aw. Mhmm. Or to put it another way, I love the rangers.

There it is. I... They had a really good DJ back in the day, I heard.

Can't remember the name, but I don't know. Yeah. Some spare.

Yeah. Yeah. I think he used to DJ for the stars too, didn't he?

Man. Maybe. Yeah.

A really talented guy. Yeah. Must add a lot of I free bet he's got a great podcast now or is part of one.

I wonder who that could be. I don't know. We'll figure it out.

Could it be? Me? I think it could.

There's no way anyone could have that crazy of a resume. No. Probably not.

No one would believe it. No. But hello to everybody.

Hi. It's another episode of load your dark companion here today inside the nurturing biosphere of the mothership. What is a biosphere anyway?

I don't know. You're the one that says it all the time. Yeah.

But, I mean, I I read it somewhere, so it's somebody else's idea. Okay. I just copy shit.

You know? Apparently, it's the global ecological system integrating all living beings and their relationships with the land, water, and air. Okay.

That's kind of what we're doing here. That's pretty nurturing. Yeah.

It is. Man. This is the November 9.

It is episode number two seventy three. And today, we're going to turn our attention to the Dallas hockey stars. Not done this in a while or at least since Brian Rae was here.

Yeah. It was more than that long ago. Which you...

You're right. It was not that long ago. But today, we're going outside their, biosphere into that of, those who cover them and critique their work.

Robert Tiffin is with us today. He writes for nhl.com. He contributes to D Magazine, and he's got a Substack.

I'm subscribed. Finally, someone with a Substack. Yeah.

Which makes him really cool. Yeah. Just like having a podcast.

What is a Substack anyway? It's a newsletter. Easiest way to describe it.

It's a newsletter. Jamie Newberg does it, so it must be cool. Yeah.

Damn right. Yep. We're having him on soon too.

Oh, thank goodness. Okay. That...

I'll watch that one. This one, I don't know. I'll watch that one for sure.

I'll watch this one. Yeah. Yeah.

I'll watch this one too. Mhmm. No.

I won't. I don't watch any of them. I don't watch any of them.

But don't take that personally. No. It's a compliment.

Thanks. Very glad to have you with us. How are you?

Thanks, Mike. Doing doing great. It's an honor.

Love the show. Good to be here. And Thank you.

Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't be happier.

So, what's your assessment of this team so far this year? I mean, at the start of the season, I was, I I didn't know what to make of it or what it was gonna be like. Mhmm.

Because last year, I spent the better part of the season thinking that we had a legitimate Stanley Cup contender on our hands. And it turned out to not be that way because it just seemed all of a sudden after that... In that...

Somewhere around the first round, either after it or late in it or early in the second round, somewhere around that that time, the thing just ran out of stuff. Mhmm. You know?

So I didn't know what to make of it so far this year. What's your assessment so far? Where are they?

Well, it's it's a lot like, you know, same as the old boss in a lot in a lot of ways. Not not too many new faces from this year's roster compared to last year. The top guys are still the top guys.

Jamie Ben and Tyler Sagan are still Jamie Ben and Tyler Sagan. They're both back. For now, Tyler Sagan still still playing games, is great to see after a couple years where he had his year derailed.

So what's what's gonna happen? That's kind of the big question. They're what?

10, five, two, I think as of this recording, that doesn't date us too much. So when you're winning roughly twice as many games as you're losing, that's good in most... It's not terrible.

It's not terrible. But as you said, the expectations are a whole another thing. When you make it to the Western Conference final three years in a row, one step away from from going to the cup final.

People are gonna expect big things from you and it... In some ways, I'm always thinking in terms of other sports just because I grew up playing a lot of baseball and even some soccer and stuff too and watching a lot of football. In some ways it reminds me of the 2010, 2011 Rangers when they went to two World Series in a row.

Then in 2012, he stole Beltrace, stole a lot a lot of good players. Did they get Hamill's that year? Can't remember but it was something...

That was 2015. No. That was later.

You're right. But they sold good team. 2012, you're still expecting something then of course we know what happened went up against...

I think it was Toronto that year. And anyway, the expectations are really high as they should have been, but it's it's hard to keep climbing the mountain and getting that close year after year after year. So...

I mean, you climb the mountain, get close yet don't make it Mhmm. Time and time again, man, that beats you down. It does.

And it beat a coach down to the point where they they let him go two years ago when they let go of Pete Delkus, which again, three conference finals in a row. You're making it to the final four. Yeah.

All three years of his tenure. That's not a coach that usually gets let go, but they made the choice to go back to Glenn Goldson who had been here a long time ago. Yeah.

Fired by the guy that rehired him. Yeah. Yeah.

It's so crazy. The first thing Jim Nel did when he came to town in 2013. The first big employment change he made was personnel move was getting rid of Glenn Goldson and putting in Lindy Ruff at the time.

Yeah. And now, you know, time is a flat circle bringing him back. But we'll see.

Had a 112 points last year. I think they finished third in the NHL, something like that. So playoffs as you mentioned, washed out after one round.

So of course that's where the proof... The... That's the pudding the proof will really be in.

Yes. But, so far this year, could be worse. What differences are you notice...

Noticing, if any, in style of play and and how they use personnel personnel and and all all that that stuff. Stuff? Yeah.

So the first thing that happened this summer when when everyone came back from from the summer, we started training camp and everything and GM Jim Nil, head coach Glenn Goldson came up and started talking to all of us vultures in the media. The first thing that was really pushed is, hey, last year our defense is really good but our goal scoring kind of disappeared. We had even strength.

We really had trouble generating goals. We had to rely on the power play and the playoffs to score. So we really focused all summer long.

Let's get more offense. We need to start scoring more goals and even strength not relying so much in the power play. And what's happened so far this year, their defense has gotten even stronger and the goal scoring is still about the same as it was last year.

So goal is to just kind of made some, you know, rye jokes about that about how... Yeah. That wasn't necessarily what we were trying to do was double down on the defense, but they seem to believe the offense will come.

You could do a lot worse than being stingy defensively. The team that won a Stanley Cup back in 1999 with Ken Hitchcock seemed to be pretty good about being defensively sound. So you could do a lot worse than than to have that as a foundation, but they still got work to do.

What can they do to improve the offense? Just as far as style of play and all that sort of thing. I was hoping you had ideas.

I was gonna take it back to him. I really don't. I'm not the hockey guy here.

You are. Well, what they said they were gonna try to do is make some tweaks system wise in the neutral zone. Think Brian talked about it a little bit when he was here too that some of the idea was that they would break out a little bit quicker of their zone instead of making sure they had structure and and everyone was kind of together playing as a five man unit that they would get the puck moving the other way a little bit more quickly.

Think kind of like a fast break offense in basketball too. Something like that where you're... You don't wanna give the tee...

The defense as much time to set up before you start heading the other way. So that was kind of the goal. They have been doing that just watching.

They they have been better about trying to push the pace and they call that rush offense sometimes or at least just breakouts, know, getting out of your own zone. The quicker you do that, the better chance you'll have at finding holes in the other team's defense. But then you have to finish at the other end and that's where sometimes called execution is is another kind of coach euphemism for it is the guys have to actually put the puck in the net when you get the...

You know, it's great to get a scoring chance or to get a good shot on goal but you do actually have to make the puck go into the net and pass the goal. And that... That's the part where a coach doesn't have so much It didn't seem to me like there was a whole lot of change in personnel over...

In the off season and heading into this year. Is... Am I misreading that?

Or or I mean, it's basically the same team except for one player, but that was also a former star in Kivy Ronta. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, that is insane consistency for what it is. Yep.

Like... Is that what they wanted? Do you think?

Yeah. Well, over the summer, there were actually two big moves they tried to do. Jim Nel tried to do two big big shakeups.

Jason Robertson who scored 45 goals for him, 27, I think years old, just great young goal scorer. I think he was first team all star last year, the best left wing in hockey. He was voted by the media, the number one left winger in hockey, Jason Robertson last year.

They tried to trade him to Seattle for some draft picks and then to flip those draft picks and first multiple first rounders. It sounds like to Seattle and expansion team up there, get first from them. I mean, is like a basketball trade basically at this point.

Get first from them, then go to we think Toronto and get a strong physical winger Matthew Nyes from them and then maybe do something else with some of the other draft picks. They basically were trying to trade out some of the more high end offense for some offense, but also some more grit and physicality. Unfortunately, Jason Robertson, he's in...

He's... We was going into the last year of his his year of team control and he informed Seattle that if you wanna make this move, I'm not gonna be signing an extension with you. And that kind of torpedoed the whole deal because as Seattle is a rebuilding franchises, expansion franchises so often struggle to do, they have yet to really get a true superstar and they were hoping he'd be that guy.

But when he said I won't sign an extension with you so I'll be gone in a year, that kinda scuttled the whole thing. So he's still here, signed a one year deal to come back, then he's an unrestricted free agent after this year. That's the biggest looming question.

Again, I think you and Brian talked about it a fair bit. We did. We did.

And it's still just as big a question what they're gonna do when January 1 rolls around. That's the first day they can put pen to paper on an extension. But then the trade deadline comes in early March.

And you'd have to think that between January 1 and early March, Jim Neil needs to figure out, are we gonna keep Jason Robertson long term and sign him to an extension? Or are we gonna try again to flip him for something that we think will will actually change the team that has gotten close, but, you know, so far has yet to get that cigar? Alright.

Now this raises two questions. Number one, when a guy reaches that point in any sport with his team, a lot of the time that can really kill the vibe a little bit between him and club. And I don't know why because I'm not close enough to even think that I have any kind of inside knowledge or anything, but I kinda get that vibe that that may be happening between Robertson and the club.

It is... Vibe is kind of the right way to put it because that's kinda what people have to go off of Yeah. Because both club and Jason Robertson are not putting any of that out there.

So you can't... You almost have to just go based off of whispers or rumors or you trying to interpret a player's body language in a press conference sort of thing. I'll say is someone who I think I I'm telling tales of school here.

I think I probably talk to Jason Roberts as much as any member of the independent media outside of the team, just after practice or after morning skate or something. And he is one of the most unique people and hockey players I've ever interacted. Really?

He is very analytical minded. He could cite almost any stat you ask him for. And we all know, I mean, certainly know that you...

Most elite athletes tend to have elite memories too. They can recall, you know, certain, oh yeah, when I faced this pitcher this time, he started me with a curveball and then tried to beat me with a slider and the inside or whatever. They can absolutely do replay at bats for you.

Pitcher's the same way. I think a lot of hockey players the same way. Jason Robertson, I think is on another level with that.

He's constantly... He's almost he's famous in in kind of a double edged way for getting back on the bench and then pulling out the tablets they all have now on the bench, you know, in the game after his shift and seeing, okay, this is what happened. This is what I did wrong.

This is, you know, what they tried to do. This is what I'm gonna do next time. But again, this is someone who just scored 45 goals last year, who was the best left wing in hockey, whatever he's doing, it seems to be working for him.

So I say all that to say he's wired differently than a lot of hockey players, especially a lot of old school hockey players that are more just, you know, crash bang boom. I see it, I go straight lines play North South, good defensive game. He much more...

He's a very smart guy and he knows a lot and he always wants to know more. Has skills coaches he's working with in the off season stuff he's worked on to make his game better, raise the floor, his shootouts, back when the shootout first started back in what was it? 2006, I think.

And the stars were one of the best shootout teams, Marty Turco, UC Yokinen, everyone remembers that one year of them just being the shootout team in the league. Jason Robertson is just as dominant shootout players any team in the league because he knows the goalies, he knows their tendencies and he's able to come in and execute. He's one of those players who can put that puck exactly where he needs to more than most players.

So he's a very unique guy. So I say all that to say, I'm not sure how much the relationship has actually changed between him and the club because I don't think he has the... He views that relationship the same way to begin with because he is such an analytical guy Yeah.

Who that may probably makes negotiations in one sense less emotional because it's not about, you know, oh, these expectations, how dare the team take a hard line? But also he's not compromise too much on his value. You'd think he even changed agents last year, before the summer.

And you usually don't do that if you're trying to get less in contract negotiations. So, yeah. Do you think there is a chance that something may be worked out?

Yeah. Because between him and the stars? It it absolutely is a chance.

And that's why I say people pretty much... A lot of people were saying, oh, I I don't know. Their relationship is fractured, all this stuff.

It's... They're just basically having to report on vibes because I think it's equally possible that he could resign with them. Because he does he does clearly like it in Dallas.

He scuttled the trade to Seattle. Mhmm. He's he said he likes it in Dallas.

It's you know, not necessarily the hockey hotbed that some other teams in the National Hockey League are in terms of you know, spotlight and you can't go outside or whatever. This is a little easier place to kind of live your daily life if you're a professional hockey player in Dallas and some other places. And it's a really good team, right?

He's got a chance to win and do really well every year. He's comfortable. He's he's getting all the power play time you could want, all those sorts of things.

So I do think there's a chance. And genuinely, I don't know what's gonna happen between January 1 and March... In early March when the trade deadline hits.

And that's what Jim Nell has to figure out. If he's not here, I mean, let's say that something happens like in the next couple of weeks or so. I know that's that's not on the drawing board as far as we know, but crazier things could happen, I guess.

Sure could. But if for some reason he's not here, who scores goals for this thing? That is a great question.

And that's the number one question about any trade Jim Noah would have to make involving Robertson. You've gotta get goals back. And that makes it a trickier trade because you can't just trade him for just picks and futures.

You have to be getting immediate help back or as was reported at least over the summer picks that you immediately flip into immediate help for a player. I think Matthew Nyse was like a 30 goal scorer once. He's a younger player, think 23 still something like that.

So the idea was maybe we'll lose 10 or 15 goals from Robertson's production but we get a bigger different type of player who's still gonna replace some of that offense and then also add a different kind of element to the lineup and some physicality that we didn't have before. Just extrapolating from what was reported that seems like maybe one of the ideas they had. That didn't work out.

Nice got traded elsewhere, so he's not available anymore. So any trade they make would have to bring back some immediate help because as as you alluded to, this is not a team flush with goal scores already. So losing him, you gotta replace those goals somehow.

Just for the heck of it, I wanna ask you about the star that that I'm most entertained by. That is Liam Bischel. Yeah.

You know, for one thing, he's huge. He is huge. And for another thing, he...

I mean, he's not he's not a klutz out there Nope. By any means. I mean, what's your take on him and the way he fits and his game and everything?

I've always wanted to ask somebody that knows about him. Yeah. He's...

Because when he's out there, I can't take my eye off of him. He's big. I think he's listed at six six seven two hundred and forty something.

Seven. Okay. He's...

Yeah. And he's he is that big when you see him especially when he comes off the ice in the locker room and the media is all waiting there to bother people at their their dressing room stalls. He...

He's on skates. I was gonna say on skates He just looms. He looms everywhere he goes.

He can't not loom, he's a loomer. Very selfish, I guess. But as you say, he's not a klutz.

He's actually also a very... He comes from a family of athletes. He has an older brother who plays soccer in the I think the second tier of the German league who's very talented soccer, also very big guy.

And his younger brother Finn is also a hockey player. He... I think he wasn't drafted last year, but he comes from a family of athletes.

Both his parents I think are athletes. They played volleyball together a lot growing up and stuff. I think his mom was a pretty high level volleyball player, from if I'm remembering some conversations I've had with him.

So he is a type of player who also he knows that size is an asset of his. He wants to use it. He can be very mean.

There have been there's that he's definitely had some hits and taken some penalties because he's not afraid to mix it up with people. But he's got... There there's a brain there too that that works really well with those skills.

So it's... There's a reason he was a first round pick is because of that exciting combination. He can skate.

He's a good skater even this year, part of the offensive system tweaks has been to also encourage the defenseman to to take the puck down lower and not just always stay back, you know, and play it safe, but also to beat one of the first people carrying the puck out of the zone. And that's fed his game really well too. It hasn't turned into goals yet for him, but he's the type of player where you can see the potential for that sort of game really working for him.

Because he's got... He's kind of a dream combination of skills as an athlete. He's got a fan in me.

Yes, for sure. Oh, yeah. A lot a lot of fans out in the crowd to every game.

Anytime he lays a big hit, it's a little louder than anyone else playing a big hit because it just the visual of him crunching someone against the boards is a really cathartic thing, I think, for fans to see. I'm a little bit reluctant to ask this because just the idea that I bring this up kind of puts a certain shade Mhmm. On the question.

But I was a little bit surprised when they changed coaches last, and they brought back a guy that had been here before. I was a little bit surprised by that. I was I was thinking and still do think or still wonder anyway.

If the guy had been here before and he didn't do it for you then, what makes you think he's gonna do it for you now? Very good question. Clue me in.

I mean, what is the allure of Glenn Gulletson? And is he living up to their expectations, do you think? Well, that's where you get into the regular season versus playoffs.

Yeah. One of the reasons they moved on from Pete Delkus wasn't just the whole stuff with Jake Ottenscher and his comments kinda throwing the goalie under the bus a little bit after their third elimination from the Western Conference Finals. That was certainly an element.

Jim Nell has been clear that was a factor, but that wasn't the factor or the only factor. Now, Kent, how much do you believe him? That's, you know, up to you.

But... Well, Jim Nell's a pretty straight shooter usually. He tends to be.

He tends to be. There's times, of course, in his professional capacity as a GM where has to maybe He can't tell you everything. Tell you everything But he'll tell you what he can.

Exactly. Exactly. That's been my experience with him too.

That he's he's not out to try to outsmart everyone by lying through his teeth for for six months and then you know, zagging when you think he's gonna zig. He's he's more or less gonna operate by just trying to do the right thing. And that's paid off for him a lot of ways and a lot of players and and other people have a lot of loyalty toward...

To him for that reason. With Pete Delkus though, I think just as much as those comments and Blake and Blayman, Jake Ottendre after that playoff elimination was the fact that two years in a row, first year they lost to Vegas, Vegas went on to win the cup in '23. That Vegas team was really good.

Don't know if anyone's beating that Vegas team. They were really good. The next two years though, they lost the same Edmonton team, the Stars did in the Western Conference finals.

Mhmm. And both times, they started out the series looking okay, had a lead. The last...

Or two years ago, the Stars had a one o lead and then lost four straight. Three years ago, they had a two one lead and they were up late in the period or halfway through the third period, then they blew that lead. Oilers even at two two, Oilers won the next two games four two.

Basically, the other team got better as the series went on those last two years. And the feeling from some of the players I talked to after the more recent elimination to the Oilers was the coach the coach kinda ran out of ideas. The way Pete Delkus runs things, he's the guy.

He's he's kind of more of a... He's he's the main guy. Put it that way.

He's only ever been a head coach in his career at any level at juniors and the minors everywhere. He's never been an assistant coach. He's always been a head coach.

And that kinda comes through in his demeanor both in how he runs things and well, when you get into a tough playoff series where the players are just kinda starting to feel like we need some different tactics because we're not able to to get through the neutral zone. We're we're really having trouble. Every mistake we make, the other team's ready for it pouncing on it and and just skating us out of the rink.

And that happened two years ago in a row against the same team and that frustration was starting to boil over. And I believe that Jim Nel basically got to the point where he said, look, even outside of the Jake Ottringer thing in the comments, this is a coach who... The frustration is getting worse as the as the failure, if you wanna call it getting the Western Conference final failure.

The frustration is getting higher. The solutions aren't coming. This is someone who's trying the same thing, just harder and more, and it's not working.

So at a certain point you to make a change. And so we did. It's not a perfect analogy, but he kind of strikes me as like a Buck Showalter of the NHL where, you know, Showalter, he'll win a manager of the year and then the next year after he has left the team, they win the world series or get over a hump in some way.

And it just seems like DeBoer kind of wears out his welcome after a few years. Like, he's a... He'll get you pretty damn far, but he can't quite get over that hump for whatever reason.

Yeah. I mean, Buck Buck Buck used to admit it. Yeah.

That he wore on people. Mhmm. You know, he knew it, and he he would...

He was really pretty open about that. You know? The same way.

Yeah. Yep. And that...

And same with Pete Pete Delkus. Pete's a great coach. He's still...

He's coaching Long Island now. On Long Island, I should say otherwise, they'll get mad at me. On Long Island.

But he that's kind of been the rep for him is that he can get you far, but one there's there's an expiration date after two or three or four years and he has yet to prove he could actually in crunch time get get over the hump. So until he does that, that rep's gonna stick with him. Same with same with Buck.

Golitson obviously hasn't done that either. I don't think he's won a playoff series in his... He only had a short head coaching tenure with the Stars.

Back to your point, he didn't get it done last time. Why would this time be different? Well, last time the team he was coaching was basically run by the NHL because they were bankrupt.

Tom Hicks had Right. Well, if he declared bankruptcy, right? Or team did.

I can't remember exactly how it all shook up officially financially but the Hicks era before Tom Gilardi had bought the team, that was not a championship roster to put it lightly. Jamie Ben had to play center at that point Glenn Gold. So I've talked to him a little bit about those days.

It's always fun to hear his perspective on that. There were players that were traded away. Nicholas Grossman, a name some Stars fans will remember basically just a middle pairing defenseman, depth defenseman from Sweden who got traded away because they they could only keep so many players because they kinda had a soft salary cap from the NHL and stuff and they had to make moves, that were not in the best interest of winning right then.

So I think it's very fair to say the team that Glenn Goldson was coaching back then was not a team any any coach. Ken Hitchcock wasn't getting it too much out of that roster either. So this really is kind of a fresh start.

And by the way, Glenn Goldson was an assistant coach on those two Edmonton Oilers teams that beat Pete Delkus stars the last two years. So getting someone from that side to come over and say, hey, I'll tell you this is how we beat you guys the last two years. I can see the allure There's value there.

Yeah. Yeah. Again, 112 points last year, third in the NHL over 82 games, you don't do that by accident.

They had a lot of injuries last year too. So this is not a coach who is in over his head or anything like that. He very clearly knows what he's doing behind the bench and the players respect him.

But of course, it all comes down to the playoffs. As always. As always.

Do you find hockey players generally easier to deal with than guys in other sports? Yes. Yes.

Categorically. Not every guy. Yeah.

And I I I we're generalizing. We are generalizing. But...

Yes. And I'll... I will say, in talking to people who have covered other sports much more than I have, they they will say the same thing too.

That generally speaking, part of it's just kind of the culture in hockey, maybe part of it's a lot of them are from Canada or even from Europe too. Honestly, a lot of the players from from... The stars of a lot of players from Finland.

Finnish mafia. Known for that, the Finnish mafia. Finland, Sweden, wherever, Czechia, Czech players, Radik Voxha, Alex Hemske over the years.

Those players for whatever reason just tend to be pretty approachable, pretty straightforward. And maybe part of it's because you're not making as much money in hockey as you are in maybe the NBA or NFL where the high end players are making even more obscene amounts of money than even the top tier hockey players. The highest paid hockey player right now is making what about 20,000,000 I think.

About 20, yeah. Whereas going to the NFL, how many players are making what three, four times out this year. Yeah, I think that's part of it.

But I do think generally speaking, there's also a very emphasis on kind of being humble and keeping your head down and stuff in the hockey. And that was... That's changing like everything else in our culture.

I think that is shifting, but that is still the prevailing kind of mindset. So for the most part, yeah, I do find them a lot easier to to generally, you know, have a have a beneficial... And it seems like it seems like it's really a part of the culture too.

Mhmm. You know, it's it's not something unique to the stars. It seems like, you know, you hear all these other guys interviewed with other teams, and they're, much the same...

You you get much the same feel for for what what they're about. You know? And sometimes that's annoying when you're trying to write a story about a player who's doing something really well and he's just saying, oh, you know, well, it was a really great pass.

I just got lucky with my shot. You got lucky three times in one period. Maybe maybe there's a little bit of skill there.

Could you talk a little bit getting lucky. Yeah. Not totally anyway.

Yeah. It does seem like the media training or something is maybe better or more emphasized or You can always tell when... Especially the younger play...

Wyatt Johnson's a great example in the stars. Great player, nicest guy in the world you'll ever meet. Don't don't have a bad word to say about him.

But also he is not necessarily anyone who remembers Tyler Sagan when he arrived here and he was younger. Tyler Sagan was a little bit more he'd tell you how it was. Some things.

Yeah. Yeah. Wyatt Johnson is very much a little bit more, here's the official thing and of course, I'm not gonna...

He'll he'll say when they play badly and they need to play better and when they play well, that's that's great. Don't get too high or too low. Do teams offer media training to those guys?

I think I think it's a little bit of both. They do get they do get kind of in development camp right after players get drafted. Every team has development camp over the summer.

So they and then some returning draft picks as well. They all get together at least once a year all up for the stars up in Frisco at their practice facility. And that's part of it.

They kind of go through, okay, here's here's what to remember when you talk to the media, here's the stuff not to do and everything. Of course, they're never gonna tell us exactly what they say to those players. Yes, they do get media training.

But I wonder if just as much as that it's the agents who are talking to players about, look, this is what you do. This is especially players that are maybe approaching free agency like older veteran players. This is how maybe this is the stuff to like not say or to say depending on if the agent thinks a narrative needs to be shifted.

You're more appealing in the free agent market. I have to think some agents are definitely having those conversations in the least, at least. And of course, you know, still up to every player ultimately to decide how open they wanna be, how vocal they wanna be.

But yeah, I I think it's shifting, but still overall, it's usually pretty easy to talk to hockey player. This is Robert Tiffin. He covers the stars for nhl.com.

He is a contributor at d magazine, and he's got a substack, which tells you he's one of the cool kids. Oh, Him and Jamie Newbury. Yes.

The coolest. That's right. Jamie.

Now we'll have more with Robert momentarily here. I gotta do this so you can just sit over there and chill for a couple seconds. You don't have a subsex, so you gotta get that somehow.

That's right. That's right. We have to make other arrangements around here.

That means our arrangements take us to that point in every show where we find it to be time for the dreaded and feared mid show read. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Let me ask you. Are you trying to DIY your football this year?

Do you think that's a good idea? Your football watching party. Got a party coming up.

You're gonna do it yourself? Why? Why are you gonna do it yourself?

Why are you gonna have a bunch of people in your house when you can take them all to Dudley's? Do it there. Door...

Dudley Sports Grill is your football watching headquarters, or at least it should be. They certainly are around here. So you need to get your crew together and get better food by far and let somebody else serve real drinks from a bigger selection that you don't have.

You can't possibly have all that at your house. Dudley's does. Get to Dudley's.

Go watch the game there. Now you're probably saying, okay. They got a little black and white 12 inch setup back there in a corner somewhere.

No. No. No.

It's gonna take TVs out the wazoo for you to have that true football watching experience that you so desperately need. They've got that at Dudley's. Get to Dudley's in Dallas.

They're at 2927 North Henderson. That is right off Central Expressway, just Southeast of Central, or find them in Rockwall. They're at 2975 Highway 66 out there.

Check out Dudley's, a cool, comfortable place. Shoopee and I both go there a lot. We dig it.

We bet you will too. It is Dudley's. Do I have another here?

One more. Okay. Every Tuesday from 05:30 to seven, I guess this would be, tomorrow.

Yes. Is that right? Do I have my days in a You do.

In a row here? Tuesday. Alright.

Then you need to join the Sunset Lounge at Scout and the Stadler for three wide at Scout. This is a football show, a football only show that we do here. And we invite all our other colleagues from the Sunset Lounge to come and sit in with us.

And we talk football there. So be one of the first five people to give the bartender the password. The password is football.

Tell them that you'll get a free drink or free valet service, whichever, you prefer. Stick around afterward. Verziggy with beer thirty sports o'clock.

Half priced ballet is available for everyone. It's every Tuesday, 05:30 at scout at the Stadler. Scout, let the adventure begin.

That sound creepy or what? Not too creepy. Yeah.

Tomorrow's show is gonna be Norm, Grego, and Mac Engel. Oh, really? Talking about I'm not on it.

You can be, bro. The hell am I? I don't know.

You own the damn thing. If you wanna join, you can. You can't complain about it after them.

It's Norm, Grego, and Mac Engel? Yeah. Wow.

Think they're gonna have some fun talking about the Cowboys game? What a crew. Telling you.

A crew. You like that DeMarion Overshawne fun? See Stephen Jones comment on him?

No. Yeah. Just...

Yeah. Well, that's not really the sort of professionalism that we wanna exhibit as a team or discipline. I think he said something about discipline too.

You think? Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I think you might right be about that, Steve O. Yeah. That could be.

Steve O. Yeah. It could be.

Let us look into that a little bit further. Let us toss that around a little bit and get back to you. Champion that we call Steven Jones.

Steve o? You... Y'all can have that.

I think you're nervous. Thank you. That's not We'll we'll take that.

I don't need that heat. Yeah. I can't say I've, seen that happen before in a...

Definitely not an NFL game. Boy. See?

He was just so excited for his team and He was so excited. Yeah. In in the most embarrassing win, I guess.

Yeah. Like, they did not deserve to win that. No.

And he just couldn't contain himself. Yeah. I know one of his teammates, I think, was trying to throw out that, you know, he's played only about 22 of 60 games.

He just... He wanted to celebrate with his friends. Like, let's not help.

Well, great. Everybody wants to celebrate with their friends, but you can't run out on the field at a football game and do it. Not in your...

Go to Dudley's with them afterwards. Yeah. Yeah.

Come to Dudley's. We'll celebrate all you want. Yeah.

But not on the field. Not wearing your... What did the ref say?

Your stocking cap and boots or Very, something very descriptive. Just so we're was awesome. It's that guy.

I don't know when I've ever seen anything weirder in an NFL game than that. Like, fully on the field. Like, it's...

I guess it's probably kind of happened, like, in the end zone or something. Neat. But even then, like...

But that dude ran onto the field. Yeah. I mean, he's injured.

He... He's not even dressed. He knows he's not gonna be able to play.

Injured, and he runs full sprint. Yeah. It doesn't look too injured.

Looked okay. Yet he gets so excited and can't contain himself. He just has to go out there and celebrate with his boys.

Not ideal. Not ideal. Not ideal, Shoopi.

Really address it. I didn't see any comments from him. Like, what the hell?

I I did do... I I did a pod earlier with Gavin Spittle over at the fan today. I did a Stars pod with him because I had some backup goalie news.

But I I haven't... Only saw the Steven Jones presser. Haven't read the shotty stuff yet.

I'm sure that's... I'm sure there's some good good stuff out there. Probably some very muted, you know.

Yeah. Well... Yeah.

You know, we just can't do that. Blah blah blah. It's like, alright, Shadi.

Yeah. Like one of his highlighters fell on his visor or something like that. Alright.

Let's get into your sub stack. Yeah. Great.

Because this is something that I see. Excuse me. You're okay.

That I see out there, and I know people who have them. But, what is it, and how does it work? A substack is a newsletter, and the sub part of it is subscription or short for Mhmm.

I assume subscription. So the idea is you subscribe to it and then you get this newsletter in your email. It's also web...

For me, it's also website, starthoughts.com. You can just go to. So the stuff...

Some of it's behind a paywall for subscribers. Some of it is just out there. A lot of the just like raw reporting type stuff I do, like that's that's just gonna be up there for everyone.

You know, every week I'll start off on a Monday or post game, I'll usually have some stuff just raw reporting. I just wanna have that out there because that you know, that Starz Media is is in a better shape than it was, you know, five... Four or five years ago when there weren't too many people covering the beat.

But still there's stuff that I I really just love getting out there for anyone. Much like radio. Right?

Like you wanna you wanna you don't wanna lock it up too much. Know, of course you want perks for people who really really care. But for the most part, the really important stuff you wanna have that out there for everyone.

So for me, it was kind of the... I mean, I know how deep you wanna go on this. But for me, originally it was a website because I had only been doing kind of stars blogging for a while and the side is like a side gig while I was doing other jobs.

I first started writing about the stars back in 2014. I'd been watching them for well over a decade before that. I remember watching their cup victory in 1999 in a hotel in Chicago.

My brother and I stayed up late because it was like one in the morning or something central time. Think when they went in Buffalo, maybe midnight, I think because it was like one or two in Buffalo. Did you grow up with a game of hockey?

Yes. I was born in Carrollton in Texas but then we moved when I was like three to California. Grew up out there for my dad moved out there to take a job.

So I grew up in California street hockey, Mighty Ducks, Wayne Gruber in LA, that that sort of thing. So I grew up playing street hockey, played roller hockey because one of my best friends who lived across the street from me, his dad was a hockey coach. He grew up playing hockey in Indiana.

So he kinda... They were the first like missionaries of hockey I think to me personally, who spread the good word of hockey to me. Borrowed some of their old gear and stuff started playing at the roller rink and everything.

And always just loved it. Loved watching it something different. A lot of sports frankly, grew up playing a lot of sports, but there's something about hockey that really hooked me.

So when I started writing about them in 2014, I was working a really boring corporate job at Boeing, an aerospace company and needed something a little bit more creative to do other than looking at contracts all day long. So it was a way to kind of take this passion that I already had and kind of write about it on the side just with other people who cared about it even though I still at the time lived out in California. Did that for the better part of a decade.

And then when I moved out to Texas in 2019, the winding route to work in education out here, then I was able to start doing some writing for D Magazine as well. Buddy, Mike reached out and said, hey, senior already been writing about this. Why don't you do some do some work for us here and there at the magazine?

So I'm like, okay. For the digital side there. Yeah.

So wrote a little bit there for them. We're still working in education then. Was education in Texas, especially post COVID was a little time consuming.

So it was nice to have something like that. Were you were you teaching? I taught for a little bit, then I was in administration as an assistant principal for a few years.

Yeah. At a at a charter school here in in Texas in Irving at the time, actually. I gotta tell you, you don't seem the assistant principal type.

Well, that's either a really good burn or a compliment. A little bit of both probably. Yeah.

With him, it's a little bit of both. Yeah. Yeah.

It was it was great. I will say I loved my time there. Worked with some really wonderful people and I grew up in a big family, grew up around kids helping the summer camps and stuff.

I've always just, think there's a lot of energy when you're working with other people who have a passion for like working with youth and making environments that are safe and fun for them and everything. I love some of the summer camps I grew up going to. So for me getting the chance to work with kids and in a professional environment where you're looking at everything from like curriculum to how to do staff meetings and teacher training well and how to weather something like COVID or have tough conversations with parents and everything.

You think a press conference is tough or a one on one with a disgruntled athlete, getting a meeting with a disgruntled parent. It's a I don't even wanna think about it. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a whole different ballgame. But the good thing is with that, when you go through it, you come out on the other side, a lot of times those are the parents and and the students that you end up having a closer bond with once you go through those tough conversations at the end of it.

So that was a lot of fun. Then the landscape in Texas and and that whole whole school network kind of shifted pretty dramatically in 2024. So that's when I shifted from doing hockey writing just as a side gig.

Had started a little website. It was just called starslots.com. It's still starslots.com.

But I decided, you know what? Let's try to monetize this and see if I can make it a full time gig. So that's where the Substack part came in was.

I have no idea who's gonna support this or who's gonna wanna pay to read Starz stuff but I've been around for a while. I'm a subscriber. I know.

Oh, yes. I know. I know.

I see... Every time I see a name, recognize it. Man, it's it's a cool feeling.

It's really cool. So I appreciate it, man. But I...

And we could wax very very fondly and poetically about a lot of things and maybe we will. But Sure. That whole thing was just an experiment to see, look, I'm looking at making a pivot in my life at that time in the fall of twenty twenty four.

We'll see if this substack model can be anything, maybe just 50 people or people who feel sorry for me will sign up instead it was way more successful than I thought it would And here we are what little over two years later, I went to Finland with the Stars that same fall, just to cover them independently as just independent. And that crazy too getting to go to Finland and watch them play two hockey games that they lost. But it was still a great experience.

And Pete Delkus got fined that first those first few months I was there for how holding the practice that he wasn't supposed to the day after Christmas. That's another thing about Pete Delkus. Were little things like Pete Delkus.

Probably didn't help things. You know, he he felt like the players probably should have some ice time and the young players should still be working out. I don't care if it's December 26, even if the collective bargaining agreement between the players union and the league says you can't practice that day.

Well, you know what, they should probably practice. So they did and team got fined a $100,000 for it. So, it was just those first few months doing it full time after anyway was was pretty crazy.

I bet his bosses weren't thrilled with that. When Jim Nell said after the decision to fire him that the Jake Audger comments were one factor but not all the factors, that was definitely I'm like, oh, I remember time he cost me a $100. If I were an owner and I'm like, okay, so I'm writing this check.

Okay, because that guy, okay, good to know. Good to know. We'll move on.

Let's see how we do in the playoffs. But good to know, I'll remember that. So yeah, so it's been it's been a wild ride, I feel really really fortunate both both because of the people who've supported me, but also because the sports media landscape is so crazy and weird.

And to the media landscape in general, every year it seems like everyone's trying to just keep their handle, keep a handle on what's going on. So getting to do something new and exciting play by my own rules to a certain extent. And then this year getting to do some stuff for the league too, that not only helps make the venture for me more sustainable, but also allows me to put even more time into doing what I was already doing is is pretty pretty awesome.

Pretty awesome. Yeah. So I feel very I feel very, very fortunate, honestly, like, not totally fake it till you make it, but a little bit like, as long as I keep getting away with this, I'll keep doing it.

Did you grow up in a part of the world where hockey was a thing? Street hockey kinda. Again, it was that nineties, like, I'm a millennial, so like the Mighty Ducks movie when that came out.

Wayne Gretzky got traded to the LA Kings, so hockey on the West Coast, the Sunbelt expansion, you know, again, '93 when the stars came down to Dallas. That whole era of hockey was kinda starting to kind of explode in the cultural zeitgeist a little bit. So I think I hit it at the right time.

So I started playing street hockey just for five. We'd live next to church parking lots. My brother and I would be out there.

We had some old pipes and chicken wire that we made nets out of. So we'd have our roller blades and our terrible plastic sticks from big five that we're whacking around plastic mylac hockey balls with. Then you get, you know, your roller blades, you learn you can get different bearings to make them go faster.

You get cool laces and you get shin pads, but these pads are cooler because they pull this way. This hockey stick does all this stuff. Then you go play at an old basketball court because it's Southern California or Central Coast Of California, I should say.

And there aren't too many, you know, ice hockey rinks around. So it was mostly street hockey for me. When did you start to really pick up on the nuance of the game?

I mean, I'm I'm... Mean, in in a way that you have to be able to do to do what you do. I think starting to write about it on a blog on defending biggie biggie back in 2014, that's when the level of accountability changed.

That wasn't just I have some thoughts or I'm making some comments here. That's your your bylines attached to something and if you get something wrong or you say something stupid, people let you know. Yeah.

People who know... You gotta wear it. You gotta wear it.

Exactly. And occasionally someone who who maybe knows a thing or two will point something out to you and say, hey, this thing you said, you're completely wrong about this. I had a player's dad.

I think this was in 2016. Again, is a block doing for free. And I wrote something kind of excoriating about a player who I think whiffed on a chance in an empty net or whiffed on a pass or something.

I don't think I'll say the player's name. But the dad reached out to I think he like DM... No, he sent me an email and it was his this player's dad, former NHL player himself.

And he was not too kind with his thoughts about me and my criticism of his son's performance. And honestly, I don't think I was that. I was pretty, you know, churlish or you know, kind of mocking.

But it's easy, right? I'm sitting in California a 100 and thousands of miles away and watching a player who's paid millions of dollars, make a bad play. So you say it, right?

You're not gonna pretend a player's playing well when they're not. But that the first kind of wake up call to me that, there will be times where you're gonna need to be really accountable for what you say and what you write. So it's better to be more prepared and even more knowledgeable than not.

So I think that for me was a really good reminder that everything from like the analytics side and not just trusting what you see, but to watching film and talking to people who were in the game, video coaches, because they'll see stuff that none of the analytics will necessarily be able to tell you. But to be honest, that's an ongoing process. There's still a lot to learn especially for someone who didn't, unlike someone like Jamie, right?

Who gets up to a really high level in the game that you're covering. There's still a lot of it that I'm still learning about. But thankfully there's a lot of really smart people around the stars and former players even that I've been able to talk to even in the media space who are kind enough to enlighten me and say, yeah, did you notice that?

And I'll say absolutely not. And then they'll point it out to me. But then the next time I might have a better chance of noticing that.

So the true answer is it's an ongoing thing, but hopefully I'm a little less dumber now than I was twelve years ago, both in hockey and in life. When did you start... Sorry.

When did you start talking to players and people within the Starz organization and all that. Like, know you were blogging Yeah. For a while, but when did you first really start kind of having conversations with players?

Kind of like now, obviously, you got players like Robo that you've been talking to for a little while, but when did that really start happening that you kind of moved from just essentially, as you said, sitting at a computer in California to actually interacting? 2019 when I moved to Texas. I'd been up to in Seattle for grad school for a few years, 2016, 2019.

Then I moved out to Texas. I started working at school just in time for COVID. Great timing by me.

But once I moved out here, even the blog I was writing for was credentialed because they'd done a really good job of kind of doing the groundwork for ten years to be a credentialed blog with the stars. So I was able to cover a couple of games for them both in preseason and one or two in the regular season. And then, the winter classic was that year actually too when they played in the Cotton Bowl, 01/01/2020, which one of the best experiences, fan experiences of my life.

Was that was just a blast getting to see them play hockey on the sheet in the Cotton Bowl, which already just the cotton ball itself is awesome. But that was crazy. So that that year twenty nineteen, twenty twenty going to the locker room, talking to coaches, talking to players and everything.

That's that's when it started. But that was still hit or miss because I was only doing it part time. So it's been that's been much much more regular now since 2024 when I've switched to doing it full time.

It seems like the whole culture of hockey is far more open to the media, to people who write about it, to people... Just to people who want to get into the game on whatever level than some of the other sports are. Well, it isn't it isn't.

I I think it is in terms of like you go and try to have a conversation about like technique with, know, basketball star or something. A lot of Martin Kennedy probably give you the time of day. So just be like, you're...

We are... You know, you talk to someone like Wemby. Right?

Yeah. Just like you... What what can he tell me about the game that I...

Is is remotely applicable. Right? To...

In my understanding because this is just someone whose gifts and talent and understanding and the work in the years and even decades for some of these players they put into it are so far beyond anything I could do. I think hockey players because they tend to be more just kind of polite and and down to earth generally speaking, there's exceptions in every sport both directions. I think they're more willing to kind of talk you through stuff and educate you about stuff, which I've really appreciated.

But the availability is also different than other sports too. Think something like baseball, there's the media have hours and hours every day. You got a 162 games both before and then even after to go in the clubhouse and sit around and talk to guys.

And then the, know, you have the manager speaking every day. That's twice as many games as a sport like hockey has. And with hockey, it's just the morning skate and then you have post game conferences and then practices whenever that availability is, that's pretty much it.

And those short windows, right? And guys are in the locker room when they're out. Some of those guys are only in there for a minute or two.

So you have to catch them that day if you're going to catch them. So I think you get more reps in other sports, So it can be easier over time. My...

For just from what I understand to get more in a deeper understanding. But in hockey, I do think players, in general, more approachable. How good do you think this team is?

I think they're probably ranked about right. I think as we as we're talking today, I think they're tenth in the league overall and second in their division. And if you finish second or third in your division, then you play the second or third place team in your division.

So that's what they did last year. They finished second and played Minnesota. It was third Minnesota eliminate them six games.

So this year, they're sitting second. And to me, that's kind of where I would have had them going into the season. If they can finish second or third, it's good.

You're above the wild card mess. So you don't have to worry about, the wild card route, tougher, not as tough as baseball or something like that where you're actually playing more games. But you have a chance at home ice advantage if you're at least second or third in your division, especially second, you're guaranteed to play on home ice in the first round.

So I think this team is as good as their offense can be. And that'll be really the question to kind of bring it back to what we were talking about earlier. If the offense can actually come, if they can start scoring at even strength, if they can find some more depth scoring either because of trades or because of players figuring it out.

They've got one or two younger players who have had some flashes. Justin Ritzges, Kovich in last year had a good... He's a undrafted rookie signed out of college.

He's been good as his younger brother just got a couple of games for the stars. One, I think maybe. R two has been elevated playing on the top line with Jason Robertson and rope by Hints.

So they've got some players who could take a step, but man, how many times do hear people talking about a team like that? Right? Saying, well, if these guys take a step and this guy doesn't regress, then everything's gonna go great.

And then you get to the Rangers in the mid mid 2010. Like well Yeah. Turns out those don't always hit.

So that's that's really the question. I think there's reason for skepticism this year, but the top end of this team is still really good. They went and got Michael Rand and I mean, he's a top 10 player in the NHL.

When you get a player like that, you can do a lot. So if their their goaltending can can be better than the other guys on any given night, think they got a chance to do damage still. The NHL playoffs, think, are more random than most other sports, really random relatively speaking.

So they can... Yeah. I think I still do think it's very possible for them to win a cup, but they need to show more than we've seen so far for that to happen.

He is Robert Tiffin, and he writes for nhl.com. He is a contributor for D Magazine. And let us not forget, there's that Substack.

Mhmm. It is out there for your perusal for you to subscribe to. If you like what he's throwing down in here, subscribe to it.

He'll appreciate that. Really nice to meet you. Cannot thank you enough for doing this, man.

My pleasure. Had a blast. Thanks.

We'd like to have you back sometime if you wouldn't object. You bet. Anytime.

Alright. There he is, the great Robert Tiffin with us. Double applause.

Yay. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

It's overwhelming. I know. Alright.

That is it for little YDC for today. We certainly thank you for watching what we do here wherever you may watch it, whenever you may watch it. We don't care about that.

Just watch it. Okay? You do that, and, everything will be alright.

Thank you, Shoopee. Thank you, Ashley, and thank you guys out there. And thanks to Becca back there somewhere.

That's it for today. Thanks for watching. Till next time.

Bye. Bye. Alright.

I'm gonna go take my pants off. Your Dark Companion is a Stolen Water Media presentation.