Next Door to Murder | The Neighbors of Lauren Whitener Speak | Signal 51 Chronicles – Case 3 Pt 4

Hey guys, this is Jake White, Coho Signal 51 Chronicles coming to you via remote conversation
that we're having today with Chasin with Chasin and Helen Capehart. You guys can tune in, you guys can find us Signal 51 Chronicles on all of your podcast platforms, YouTube, Spotify, you name it. We're there.
We're under the umbrella of sunset lounge DFW. Today we're coming to you with a little bit of bonus content regarding the story that we're about to release a murder in Lake Bridgeport, Texas.
Wise County, Texas. With us today, we have Chasin and Helen Capehart. Guys, I appreciate you taking time on a Sunday, late afternoon to join us.
And so we can kind of get you outside of the story on this story that we really spend a lot of time kind of digging into.
So appreciate you guys being here. What we're going to do is I've got a bunch of questions, kind of a Q&A. There's those questions will inevitably lead to spin off questions anytime you guys have a question or want to know some information by all means ask me.
I think we're pretty well versed in the story. We weren't there though. We weren't investigating it, but I think we know a lot of facts about it. So what I want to do is get started. Like I said, you guys are chasing Chasin and Helen Capehart.
Can you guys kind of give us a little bit of background on why we would have you guys on the signal 51 Chronicles?
Well, I mean, we were neighbors, of course, to the victim, Lauren Wattner. And I mean, before we had kids is when we were just me and Helen, we were living happily transplants to the Bridgeport area.
And we were, you know, I guess lucky to live next to Helen and her roommate at the time.
Lauren, yeah, sorry. Yeah. Okay. So a little bit of background geography wise. So Lake Bridgeport, Texas, small community in Wise County, Texas.
So a little bit maybe about an hour northwest of downtown Fort Worth, which is where we're coming from today, as we speak.
Again, small community, Lake Bridgeport itself, less than population of around 300 people, very small geographic area. So small, they don't have their own police department.
They had a volunteer fire department. I think we'll kind of cover some of that today.
How long did you guys, or when did you guys move to the duplex on North Main Street in Lake Bridgeport?
We moved there in July of 2018.
Okay. Did you guys stay in that same duplex the entire time that I guess you guys would have been at 640 North Main Street, right?
Yes. Right. Yes.
All right. Can you guys kind of give us a little bit of background describe how you knew Lauren, describe Lauren to us from your perspective?
Well, we really just knew her as being a neighbor and a conjoined neighbor. So her and her roommate and their children were in the conjoining duplex, I would say, is that North of us?
Yeah. The duplex north of us.
And so while we didn't necessarily have a ton of, a ton of interactions as in like dinners or lunches or get together or things like that.
But we knew we knew her and her neighbors as very friend. I'm not her neighbor. Sorry. Her and her roommate is very friendly outgoing personalities.
I'm happy to help you with whatever you need.
We would come home from work.
Yeah.
And they would always, if weather permitted, they'd be outside doing whatever, having like sitting on the porch, talking.
I think she did smoke cigarettes so she would sit outside and smoke and we'd always come home and say, hey, how are you?
She's always just cheerful and pretty much in a good mood most of the time and just kind of a, you know, how do you neighbor mentality all the time?
Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
So what we're going to focus on is really a period between starting July 3rd of 2019.
And it's going to progress all the way.
Maybe around September, October, November of 2019.
So we're talking 4th of July, right?
We're in a close to a lake.
By certain accounts, it seemed as if North Main Street had somewhat of a party block party kind of vibe to it leading up to the 4th of July.
Does that sound about right or was it pretty normal?
Well, I mean, there were people, the boat ramps were very close.
There were very, there weren't very far.
So there are a lot of times the party boats would drive by.
You know, that happened a lot and there's also a very rural country.
You know, the neighbors were very, just go out and drink in their front yard kind of thing.
They were million dollar homes right next door also.
So there was kind of a mix, a healthy mix of parties out on the lake along the lake.
But the access to the lake was nearby.
So we saw that traffic regularly.
But there's also very a rowdy type of bunch of people who they would, you know, barbecue and drink right there in their front yard down the street.
Yeah, so I want to go to July 4th.
You know, I mean, it seemed to be a pretty typical 4th of July celebration wise from what we could tell in terms of the environment.
Like I said, obviously by a lake.
Do you guys remember about what time you guys went to bed on July 4th of 2019?
I would say no later than 1030.
Yeah, she was, she was eight months pregnant.
So she was quite tired.
I'm sure.
And we had been hearing the commotion throughout the week.
And so I was working in retail.
And so the holiday weeks are very busy for me.
So I was ready to go to bed, probably a row.
I say, no, in the same time, it's hard.
I mean, we both went to bed just like she said.
I was saying no later than 1030.
It was definitely dark outside for sure in the middle of July.
Do you guys remember anything stand out on the 4th of July, during the day, like, you know, throughout the day?
Like any kind of, just anything that would stand out to you?
Not necessarily anything that would stand out.
The biggest issue that I had was that there was some argue.
And that's the funny thing I would say about our duplexes is that, like I've mentioned before,
she had a roommate and they had children.
They both had a child and they had dogs.
And you would think by being conjoining duplex neighbors that you would hear what's going on on the other side.
And honestly, except for maybe a random door or things like that, we didn't really hear anything,
which was great because that meant we, it was kind of private, which was nice.
It didn't feel like we were like in an apartment setting where you can hear every step and crook and door and things like that.
So really, we wouldn't hear anything unless things were happening outside through the window.
Yeah, like if they had to be, anyone had to be outside for you to necessarily hear anything in your duplex, at least for us.
And the biggest issue I had was that there was lots of arguing and things going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.
And for me, I distinctly remember Helen Tracy and I was like, if this does not stop by like 10, and next 10, 15 minutes, and this is roughly 10 o'clock.
And that's probably being a little, not I wouldn't say snooty, but like, hey, it's 10 o'clock.
Like people have jobs like we need to go to a, we need to go home, go to bed, go do your thing.
But I was like, godly, this needs to stop.
Like whatever's going on, they need to just cool it, go to bed, deal with it.
And they being Lauren and the Maxwell couple, they were, they were arguing.
Well, yes.
But short answer, that was probably the biggest issue is that there was just some arguing and commotion going back and forth.
I mean, they were going from this duplex, go back to that duplex.
This duplex, definitely.
In front of our windows.
So it was just windows were out here.
And you hear, we're talking just back and forth as they would, you know, come in front of windows and stuff.
And I'll kind of, I'll, we'll set the, I'll kind of set the scene here in a second on the, you know, how we're describing the duplexes.
So that way people can understand we're going to have some images and things like that up for where people can see it.
But we'll describe that in a second.
Jason, you know, obviously I spoke to you yesterday.
Do you remember what time you woke up on July 5th?
Yeah, I can't remember precisely, but it was, it was at least after 2 a.m. to, you know, between 2 and 4 a.m. is how I describe it most.
But most likely, I think it was between 2 and 3 in the morning.
And it was just pitch black outside, you know.
What caused you to wake up?
The smell of smoke.
I grew up in the country.
So I, I remember distinctly the, the smell of burning plastic.
So I knew that the difference, you know, from that between burning wood or whatnot.
So I knew that was bad as like artificial petroleum, you know, something burning.
And so I jumped out of bed.
So I think pregnant my, my intention was, was to her safety, of course, because I was like, it was not good.
Yeah.
I just thought you were having a bad dream.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I can see shot up.
And I was like, what is going on?
Yeah.
And so I kind of just waited to kind of see what's going on.
And fortunately, you did.
And fortunately, you were like, something's wrong.
And this is like, I know something's happening.
So you wake up to the smell of, you know, what, what you seem to be burning plastic.
What, what did you do once you, once you got out?
Do you remember?
Well, I, um, immediately grabbed flashlight went outside.
Um, my first assumption was maybe a firework had landed on the shingles of the roof.
And maybe that was what was causing it.
So I went outside.
And, and of course, where we were is very windy, uh, being on the side of the lake.
We're, we're getting just straps of, of constant wind.
Um, and I walk outside and it's, I smell nothing.
There's a fresh air, uh, no smoke.
I go all the way around, um, the, the duplex and smell nothing.
So I come back inside thinking maybe I'm, you know, uh, imagining things.
And then I go and I smell again.
Of course, strongly.
So I have her.
Hey, this is not good for pregnant woman.
So I said, let's sit in the front, uh, of the front porch and figure this out.
And so I, I started to just deduce, well, it's not in our house.
Then it must be coming from next door that was connected.
And that's when I, uh, mean Helen both started checking windows.
And, well, before that, we checked the inside to make sure there wasn't something happening in the home.
Yeah.
And I was in the nursery.
I went to back to the nursery.
Oh, right, right.
Yes.
I went back to the nursery and I could hear in the nursery a faint smoke alarm sound.
And again, us being connected to each other, there's no way that we had not normally heard things.
So it's like something's going like.
So you, you pretty much have to put your, almost put your ear to the wall and that, that dividing wall to really hear it.
Yeah.
And it was very, very faint.
Um, so we went outside.
We went straight over to there.
We could see that the windows were this dark charcoal gray color.
You could not see on the inside.
And you could kind of feel like they were warmer, comparative to ours.
Um, and so that was an immediate, hey, we need to call the fire department.
And that's, I mean, that's what we did.
Was it not the one that we called?
Um, I think so, yeah, we, and they connected us to the volunteer fire department.
Kind of tell me what happened.
So you called the fire department, walk me through that call.
Like what, how did that go?
Well, they, they were very hesitant because it was the night of after the fifth.
They, they thought, oh, you know, you're in a smell residual fireworks and stuff like that.
Okay.
And so there was kind of like, are you sure?
Like are you sure?
You know, because they're abused.
Do you see fire?
Like I remember the dispatch distinctly being like, well, do you even see it?
I said, no, I don't see it, but I smell it.
I was like, I smell smoke.
And just please have somebody come out here and I was getting, I remember being frustrated with like, I'm not, you know, bullshitting.
I'm just trying to smell it.
Please come out.
Because they had the attitude I was receiving was the, oh, it's probably nothing.
Kind of mentality.
And then when the, when they, young man came in and volunteer fire department, he was probably 1920.
A decent attitude.
He wasn't giving me any, any attitude or anything like that.
He had a, he's like, okay, what were you talking about and I pointed.
I said, we think it's coming from that because we can hear the smoke detector.
And we can see a suit.
And he definitely, he showed the light to the window.
And within seconds was like, yep, there's definitely something on fire in there.
And he radioed for whoever to come and, to look.
How long did it take for the other, I mean, again, we're talking Lake Bridgeport.
So we got, you know, volunteer fire department.
You might have a emergency service district that responds later.
But how long did it take for the other fire department personnel to show up after the first one arrived?
I want to say no more than 20 minutes.
Okay.
Do you remember when they, do you remember how they made entry into Lawrence Duplex?
They, I remember they didn't, they didn't go into, you know, into the house for a while.
I mean, I say a while, I was sitting there waiting for them to open it.
Like, I was, I remember looking at like, why are you not going in?
And it's because they figured out that the back door had been unlocked and they were going in there.
And to, to figure everything out.
And, and that, that part I don't, didn't see, but I figured I was told later.
And they made entry that way.
And then when they, I think a, I think somebody discovered her, her, her body.
And then that's when everything changed.
And the, I remember seeing one of the state troopers attempting to kick the door, the front door down open.
And a fireman yelling at the troopers saying, stop kicking that door.
And they had like come to an agreement and to, to talk about something.
And then they went off and stopped.
And then I think within minutes they unlocked the door from the other side.
And it just went, just lit up the front yard.
Just like, like, like headlines, basically.
And, and that was not, you know, I don't know, 30 minutes since that, you know.
So you knew pretty quickly that Lauren was inside after the fire department made entry.
No, we, we knew her car was there.
Because we saw it in the park in the driveway and we were, and we were hoping she wasn't.
So other than that, because my first thought was she had fallen asleep with a cigarette on the couch.
And then she just basically died of smoke inhalation and hoping, and that's my kept, that's what I kept telling myself.
So this is, maybe that's what it was, that's what it was, because the couch was what I knew her couch was right there.
And that's what just lit, lit up from being on fire.
But I didn't really know anything until they told us hours later.
So the fire departments there, they're, I mean, this, this, this fire, it's not like a raging inferno by any means, is it?
No, like, you did not see the fire outside of the home in any shape or form until doors were opened and oxygen was able to get into the premises.
Right, right, okay.
What, when I introduced a couple of people that we've talked about them briefly, but Rodney Eric Maxwell, he goes by Eric and Ashley, Ashley Hill, were some nearby neighbors of yours.
In fact, they lived in the duplex. If you're facing your duplex, they would have lived into the building, the duplex to the left of you, correct?
Yes, if you're facing the duplex, it would be the detached one on the left, yeah.
So there's was 660 North, North Maine. So we have to kind of set it up. We have the first duplex, which is basically where you guys are at, Lauren lived in 620.
You guys lived in 640. That's under one roof.
There looked to be about like a 25-foot-ish common area separating yours from Maxwell and Hill's duplex, right? Is that sound about right?
Correct, yeah.
Okay. Can you kind of describe them as you knew them?
Well, the first impression that me and Helen had was they seemed a little shy. They seemed like, okay, they had kids.
They were cute kids. They were pretty well-behaved kids at first impression, of course.
I don't know how long they'd been living there before. We had been not very long, but they invited us to even a Halloween party.
And me and Helen decided, you know what? We tried to meet people. And of course I went. We went there, we just opened minds helping to just get to know people.
And they were very accommodating, but they were very much a, whatever it takes to have a good time, they were unashamed to do that, which usually meant drinking and smoking pot.
And, you know, just have kind of like what you get in the hospital vibe, but they're, you know, in their late 20s and 30s.
But for the most part, they were very sweet people. They were, you know, just same kind of thing, high neighbor.
We talked to them a couple of times in passing through the first few months. And then as time went by, we'd Helen got pregnant, we would walk up and down the street to, of course, help with her health and the baby growth.
And all that good stuff. And we would get to know her kids because they would come in out, they'd come out and say, hey, can we walk with you? And we were like, yeah, sure.
And so we would just, you know, get to talk to them, hitting them because she's a teacher. And she was very good with kids. And so she would just kind of talk to them and, you know, talk to them, the girl.
And, you know, I was your day. And, and that kind of thing. And then the boy, he was a little, these are rambunctious rebellious kid. They're, they're young. This, they're all just kidding.
So you kind of got the vibe that they were decent parents. But then there were a couple of times where they were left alone. We didn't, we didn't realize that the kids were left alone.
We, that happened at least twice that I can remember. And we had to make way to find out, you know, hey, where, where are your parents? And, and I don't really remember what came up.
We were just so frustrated with it. Like, we even stopped walking because we didn't want to be caught in the middle of that.
But I think it was one of the grandparents became, you know, kind of babysitter form eventually. But they started becoming absent.
Okay. I think more and more.
And could you tell if Lauren was Lauren friends with Eric and Ashley?
I can't initially. Well, not initially because I will say is because they're the distance distance between my front porch and Eric and Ashley's house.
I actually took some of these boulders and made steps so that nobody would trip because the traffic between the two houses were becoming so frequent.
I, I actually made it to where nobody would, would fall and hurt themselves. So it was kind of just as constant. I mean, I would say more of the kid.
Like, our initial introduction would be like the kids were playing together and hanging out and involved with each other.
And so that was, that was a positive thing because we're like, okay, so there's kids around, there's parents, like they're, they seem everybody seems cool.
To answer your question, I wouldn't say no, not initially. Did we see any more interaction with him versus Ashley, like Eric versus Ashley?
I think it was the same. I would even say still now that to my recollection, Ashley hung out with Lauren way more than Eric did.
When did you kind of timeframe, you know, you guys lived moved in in July of 2018. So almost one year prior to what we're, by your prior to what we're talking about.
Do you remember when you started to notice that, hey, Lauren is friendly or knows Ashley and Eric, do you remember about when that would have started?
Your question broke up just a little bit. Oh, sorry. Do you remember, so you guys moved in about one, one year prior? Do you remember about when you started to notice that, hey, Ashley or Lauren, Ashley and Eric, at least know each other or at least friendly with each other?
Well, not long. I would say from the get go, like it was like we knew they knew.
Yes, platonically, like that it was very from the get go, they were all cool with each other. They mean the kids would go to their house. They would all be a one apartment or one duplex or the other or on the porch.
Like it wasn't a, this, their friendship was already established when we moved in.
Well, and I know for a fact that we saw a lot of it outdoors more than anything because if I remember Lauren's roommate, she was very much, I don't want smoking in the apartment and the duplex.
So you all have to do all you're talking and smoking outside and that's why they were always usually collected on one of their porches regularly.
Yeah, got it. Okay, I want to go to July 3rd of 2019, kind of jumping around a little bit, but on July 3rd of 2019, one thing that we learned was that Lauren spent the day.
It was Lauren, a male friend of Lawrence who we don't know the identity of that person spent the day with Eric and Ashley at their duplex.
In fact, they even reportedly stayed the night at Eric and Ashley's duplex the next day being July 4th, the male friend woke up and left it around noon that day.
Do you guys know anything about that or who that?
I don't know who it is, but I do remember there being a black sedan.
At this point, six years I can't remember what model or make it was.
I know that I communicate that to the detectives that we spoke to, but I noticed that there was a gentleman with a black vehicle and it had parked a couple of times.
Sometimes it was parked in front of Lauren's home and then at one point it was parked in front of Eric and Ashley's home.
But to tell you who it is, have no idea.
If it was the same person that we're even thinking of.
Was it common for Lauren to have people over at her place?
Not to my luck to let you know.
She would have a different boyfriend within a few weeks of each other sometimes, but she never would just have a person after person.
But no, yeah, I didn't know her to have complete strangers over at all.
Most of the guys that would come over just based on what you guys can recall.
Were you ever suspicious of any of them or thought?
Did you guys ever think anything about any of the ones that ever came over there?
Just that one.
Yeah.
That one was weird to me.
I mean, I and probably me being nosy, but again, I was nosy because it felt odd.
Something was weird about this.
Just trying to figure out who that person was and why are they going back and forth between the home.
But other than that, no, the previous boyfriend that she had, he seemed really, really nice.
This got along with her roommate to our knowledge, got along with her kid to our knowledge, if there was interactions with them.
I mean, they seemed fine.
This was a random situation.
Whoever this was was a random situation to my understanding.
Do you know if she ever had a boyfriend that maybe lived in the Austin area or would go back and forth?
Yeah, I think the one that was with her prior.
He really liked her and I think was even considering moving up here or up there to be closer to her.
But I think she had other ideas.
Because she had been with him, I think, for a good few months or something.
I don't recall totally, but I remember her.
He was around a lot and he would come up to visit on work, I think.
And then this randomly, here's this different guy and you're just like, man, I can't keep up.
Do you know what kind of car that guy drove that you were talking about?
The genuine one from the third or the other?
No, the other one.
The point when I remember was in, I believe it was a blue truck.
I believe it was a blue truck.
Again, this was six years ago.
One of those details that kind of leave your memory.
Okay, let me fast forward to July 5th.
So fire departments there, they put the fire out or the love seat and mattress.
Did you guys see them remove Lauren's body or anything of the sorts?
Did they remove her body?
Did you guys see them remove her body?
Yes, they removed her body on a stretcher.
I do remember that and it was her body was in a bag.
So one of their dogs was also in there and I believe the dog had passed away too.
So you guys kind of described, I mean, you lived next door for a year.
Very seldom you would hear any, I mean, again, we're talking about drywall separating the two units.
Absolutely.
You never heard anything, right?
Yes.
And again, that's wild to me because not only were there two females, they both each had a younger child who,
you can help children or loud and make noise and things and they also each had a dog.
And so the fact that we didn't hear anything, I really never heard anything was crazy to me,
but I appreciated that being a tenant because it was a much different situation than living in an apartment where you can hear everything.
Yeah, oh yeah, you get it from up down side and all that.
Oh yes, absolutely.
So after the fire departmentlies, they removed Lauren's body,
kind of walked through what, like what do you recall, what do you recall about the crime scene and kind of the conversations people were having outside that day?
My remembrance was that they essentially blocked everything off.
We weren't really, I don't remember them telling us we couldn't leave, but it felt like we couldn't leave until they left.
We were questioned together, we were questioned separately in a vehicle, like a detectives truck.
We essentially just sat in our front lawn just watching things happen and it felt like, for me, it felt like those hours went by for years.
Like it just, it took forever.
I don't think they left until after one o'clock that afternoon.
So that was the first time I remember feeling like, okay, we can kind of breathe for a minute.
We can go in our home.
Not that they said we couldn't go in our home.
But the smell was absolutely atrocious because at that point they had taken out town fire.
So the exhaust and things like that.
But also too, I just feel icky.
I did not want to go in there.
But essentially the scene was very much, we just sat out, Eric Ashley, myself, Chase and Lawrence roommate.
We just sat out there and we're just conversating and trying to figure out, okay, why would this have happened?
Who could have this been?
I mean, what would cause this, like, and just kind of talking shop about what may have occurred or who it, who may have been over or things that had happened or why.
But it just felt like time really slowed down in those few hours that we were there.
And Lawrence roommate was not home when.
No, she was actually staying at another friend's home.
And I'm the one that reached out to her through Facebook because actually I didn't even have her phone number at the time.
I just had her, I just had her as a friend on Facebook.
And so I was messaging her and trying to call her and be like, hey, you need to come here.
Something's happened.
Like, you need to get here as soon as she can.
She did.
She was in a pajamas.
I mean, it was, she got here as fast as she could.
Or there, I should say.
She got there as fast as she could.
But no, she was not in the home.
Her child was, her child was not there.
Lawrence child was not there.
The only person human in the home was Lauren.
How did, do you know how Eric and Ashley did chase him?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Did you go down at some point in the morning and say, hey, there's something that's happened?
Yeah, like, yeah, there came a point where when the firemen were doing their trying to figure out the fire.
I think, you know, basically they had to open the door.
I had, I thought, oh, they better know.
You know, just, just because, you know, I had no reason to believe anything.
You know, at the time.
And, uh, oh, um,
Eric, what's up?
Um, but, um, they, they basically, I went to their front door and I knocked it.
I was like, hey, you know, you'll need come, like Lawrence house is a fire.
And they're like, and I remember Ashley being very much like, what?
And I went, yeah, and then Eric just, he was in his boxers and, um,
I think Ashley was in a gown.
And the first thing that struck out was when she walked out, she was, she's ginger.
And so she was very white, but she had bruises on her exposed, her arms and her legs.
I mean, she's pasty, so she, she had these dark brown bruises, um,
like a Dalmatian pretty much all over her.
And they were not there the day before.
And, um, or the last time I saw her anyway, I don't, I remember, um,
never, I don't remember noticing them prior, uh, that.
And, um, I, uh, immediately got, like, really sick to my stomach,
because, because I thought, you know, dad gum, you know, because it was
anywhere but the face.
And, you know, and I, I, I just deduced that that was somebody who basically
be the crap out of her.
And, um, and then Eric was, uh, making it abundantly clear that he was distraught.
He was just crying and just got on his knees and put his face to the ground and was very,
like, oh my god, like, oh my god, I can't, what's going on in, in all that.
And, and I even was trying to console him, like, we, like, we don't know.
We don't know.
I just, I just know that, because they're like, is she in there?
Is she in there?
And, like, her, her car's there, man, I don't, I don't know yet.
And, um, that's it.
But, you know, the, the, the, they're, they're figuring, they're trying to figure
something out, but, um, and then I kind of went back and said, we'll just
let them alone for the minute.
And, um, they, they would make sure their kids were, um, essentially, um, in their house
and, and whatnot.
And then, um, but anyway, that was pretty much the, the interaction I had with them
until we started to sit down.
And, in the yard, um, we basically all started pulling lawn chairs, um, right there,
out of the way.
And, um, you know, we were all calling each other's appointments.
And, but hey, you know, we're, I'm definitely not coming in and whatever.
Yeah.
Um, but, let me ask, so, at, at some point then, during that day on July 5th,
you guys all spoke with Eric, Ashley, and then Lauren's roommate.
What was her name again?
Jessica.
Jessica, yeah, sorry.
You guys all were sitting outside just kind of, I assume just discussing like, what in the world just happened?
Yeah.
Speaking our mind, just asking the questions to each other and, and, you know, a lot of times,
I mean, I had my, my body and face was, was turned at the house.
I was not letting my eyes off of anything because I wanted to see everything that the police were doing.
I was just, of course, trying to figure out what was happening as it was happening.
And, um, you know, but at the same time, Jessica, Lauren's roommate and the Maxwell's were, um,
essentially, uh, talking amongst themselves in front of us and, uh, and essentially talking about, um,
what, what Jessica was like, well, what, what were y'all doing yesterday, you know, that kind of the guy.
And she saw, there were truly cans that drank, truly can't empty ones all over the Maxwell's front yard.
And she knows that, that Lauren drank them.
So she's like, so they, she's like, she'll, she'll hang out, she'll hang out with y'all then.
And what were y'all doing?
Who, where's that guy?
Where was the guy she was with?
And, um, and it led to just kind of rebuttal talking about their afternoon.
And, um, and it was, that was for the most, the most of it just, you know, they were drinking and talking and stuff.
And then, you know, one thing that led that really stood out for me was when, um, Ashley and, and Eric both started talking about how Lauren was, uh, suicidal.
But she was pretty sure she had cancer or she was going to die of cancer.
So she was probably, you know, she, she very well could kill herself.
And I'm thinking, you know, even if that was true, this is not the time north place to be talking about that.
And that's what really stuck to me as, and, and then what, what, what do you have to, what I'm saying that, what does that matter right now?
And that's stuff like that was coming out of their mouth.
They were saying things that were deflective.
And, um, I could, you know, I didn't like that, of course, and it was like, well, I could smell something going on.
And I, and I was just on the impression that it was maybe they had stolen or were participate in drugs.
They weren't supposed to be, of course, and, or, of course, they didn't want no one knowing their, their personal stuff.
The, the through something maybe, but I was still under that, like, you know, hopefully they still didn't have nothing to do with it.
Because I, that was the last thing I wanted was to, to have them be their, you know, the murders.
So, was that the first time, did you ever suspect or was that the very first time you ever heard that the three of them were romantically involved, I guess?
Repeat that.
Was that the first time that you heard or did you ever suspect that the three of them were romantically involved?
Never would it.
Well, that was, yeah, at that point in time, that was the where I kind of was like, oh, so that's what y'all have been doing.
Because I thought it was just friends drinking, smoking, you know, what I was seeing.
But then there was the, oh, y'all, because of that, Jessica, I asked Jessica, I was like, is that, are you being for real?
Or is this true? And she's like, yeah, look at the, look at this crazy, she's talking about Ashley.
So, look at this crazy, you know, woman. And she showed me pictures on her phone of Ashley Hill being naked on the floor where you can't see nothing just her back.
And Lauren is just like, doing this in the picture where they're obviously like, she's actually is drunker or hot.
And she's just there naked in front of Lauren. So, you're just like, oh, okay.
Well, I guess that is some stuff that's been going on. And Jessica, it's just kind of, she's like, I was under, she was under the impression that whatever was going on was going to come to a stop, you know, or come to its, it's in some form of fashion.
Was it Eric and Ashley that had brought up that they were all three involved? Or was it Jessica who brought it up?
I think it was Jessica who brought it up to me because I had asked Jessica what was causing this so much traffic and the yelling.
And then she brought it up and was telling me just, you know, filling me in on this is what they were doing from what she could tell.
So, let me ask you later that day, the fire department leaves, the investigators leaves.
Did anything happen at Lauren's side of the duplex after the investigators in fire department left?
I mean, when everybody left, I was at home and we were at home. And the fire department correctly, Lauren and Lauren, Ashley and Eric walked straight in there and started pulling stuff, like holding things.
They were walking around in it and I immediately went and was like, what are you doing?
They just, you know, they hadn't been gone very long and I looked and Ashley had an arm with a T-shirt and items were wrapped up in it.
So, it wasn't like they were trying to steal anything or personal possessions but it was very much a, they were going directly to her room to grab something and then leave.
Did you see them ever go back in there after that day?
Yeah, I think they went back again the next day. But when I went out, when I noticed they were just kind of hands in their pockets just kind of looking around, you know.
When you spoke with the detectives, so one thing in the investigation, you know, they took, you know, they collected DNA samples from a myriad of people. Did they ever ask you guys to submit to a DNA sample?
Of ours, obviously, yes, yeah.
Did they just do a buckle swab? So basically it's like a big Q-tip and you're...
Yeah, they did. They asked that from everybody on the block pretty much. Do you know?
I don't, but I know that he submitted his DNA, Eric submitted his DNA willingly.
I can't remember how I was told, but I got pretty bold and I think I asked one of the detectives, you know.
Well, did he, did he? And they were like, yeah, he gave it willingly.
Did you guys know anybody by the name of Billy Ray Thompson or Vicki Bondavi?
Billy, and maybe the duplex next to Eric and Ashley or maybe the building over from them.
Billy Thompson, I think I had talked to him a little bit because they had a grill and a smoker and I sat on a butcher, so I would just try to talk to him.
I'd see him using it and I would just say, hey, are you and kind of talk to shop with them a couple of times.
I think she... I think she came by after all this that had occurred.
Oh, right. Yeah.
I think she came by after all this occurred and just had asked some questions.
She was just like, well, I heard dub, dub, dub.
And we had never met her before at all.
And so she came all the way just because of the whole ordeal and asking us what we was going on.
And of course, she gave us her two cents of all gossip and the things she thought she saw.
And of course, I didn't think at the time.
I don't think there was anything she said that was that sounded accurate.
On July 12th, a restoration crew.
It's a civilian company that perhaps contracts with White Wies County Sheriff's Office,
came and cleaned out Lawrence Duplex. Do you guys remember that?
Yes.
Did you guys see any... Did they remove anything that seemed abnormal or stood out to you?
No, you were working, so you wouldn't have seen it.
And I would have been working at that time.
And they were there, I believe, for a couple of days.
Like, it wasn't just a one-day deal.
It was at least a couple of days.
But not to my recall, do I remember seeing anything that was suspicious?
It looked like they gutted the entire thing.
Okay. On July 16th, investigators returned.
So four days after the crime scene was cleaned out, they returned.
And found a... What I'll call is a trail of blood from the back door of Lawrence,
leading towards the Maxwell Duplex. Do you remember that day by chance?
When it was really dark, it was dried out and they had come back with lights.
And they were just in the backyard or behind the fencing of the backyard.
They just lights, just walking back or just a whole bunch of lights, though.
I do remember that.
The next day, so the owner, Dan Mattsinger, I guess he owned perhaps all of the Duplex...
I think there were six total Duplex structures on North Main.
I don't know if he owned all of them. I think that he did.
He gave investigators a consent to search for Lawrence Duplex.
But it was described as 62640 and 660 North Main Street.
It looked like that they were just focused on the exterior.
Do you remember... And it was here where Barry Green was the defense attorney.
I don't know if you guys ever read anything that he had... He had very vocal about this case.
He was Eric's defense attorney, in fact.
And he described what coined the single blade of grass theory.
And so on the 16th and 17th, they find that trail of blood on the 17th.
Do you guys remember... Do you guys ever see investigators collecting any of the grass samples in that backyard area?
No, not necessarily. I just remember them walking with, like I said, the lights.
And then really never noticing anything afterwards.
At one point, they did search the Maxwell's home.
Yeah, that's what I was going to get to next.
So they ultimately executed three search warrants at Maxwell's house.
So the first one, though, of significance.
I'm unclear on the details on the first one.
I don't even know the date.
And they can't find the search warrants or they won't release them.
It's one or the other. They said they couldn't find them.
So I don't know what that means. But they... They pull it up real quick.
So were you guys there on... So on July 11th was the first search of substance at the Maxwell's home.
Do you guys ever remember seeing investigators at that house?
Yes. Yes. I was being very nosy and looking out the side window.
I'll be 100% honest.
Right. I know.
Well, because...
Under the circumstances, I mean, do you remember...
Did you ever... Do you remember them? Could you see them carrying anything from the Maxwell house that you could identify?
I believe a blanket.
And... But that's all that I remember.
I know, like you said, they did go a couple of times.
And we had been told by this and that that they had also collected this little thing and that little thing.
But I personally only saw like a blanket that they had grabbed.
Do you ever remember seeing a red gas can on the front porch of the Maxwell's at any point?
Yeah.
Or Eric used it to fill his pushmower.
Okay.
Let's see. They go back on the 18th, the detectives collect more blood-related evidence at Maxwell's home.
Do you guys know of anybody that went by the name of Ace?
Ace?
What does that sound like?
It rings a bell, but I think it was one of the friends of the Maxwell's, I believe, but it was...
No, I don't recall.
I can't put a name to a face, but that name sounds familiar.
What about anybody by the name of Gary and his last name started with the letter M like Mary?
They had a lot of friends that the Maxwell's did.
And I know, I think one of their friends may have been Gary, but honestly, I don't know.
Okay. And Jason, we talked about this yesterday.
Investigators learned that at some point, I don't know when this was, but at some point, Lauren had...
Let me get the wording so I don't want to...
So at some point, Lauren had picked up what was described as a vagrant, and he would later peek in her window.
This person that reported it said that Lauren also on another occasion found him in her living room, and he would not leave.
Does any of that seem...
No, we never were told of anything like that.
We were never warned of anybody.
I mean, there were occasionally people walking randomly.
I mean, pretty much anything that could happen on that highway behind us, it happened.
And so, yeah, knowing her, she tried to be a helping hand to people.
But I think Jessica, her roommate, would have probably put her foot down at that extent for sure.
The information we had said that Lauren was what they described as a surgical tech or a surgical nurse. Is that accurate?
I believe it to be so. I know her and her roommate worked at the local hospital...
Indicator.
And to my record, yeah, I believe that they were in...
They were at least in the medical field now, exactly their specialty.
Well, they did talk about surgeries, and I would listen to them on at least one occasion.
Talk about medical procedure with a doctor and how he was like kind of rude, or they're talking about their experiences with such person and whatever.
It would, it would definitely coalesce with that statement as that's what she did.
Okay. Do you guys recall?
See real quick. Did Eric after...
Once the investigation was underway, so July 5th, all the way up until his arrest on September 6th.
Did you guys ever have any conversations with him in between?
Not the morning of, obviously, not the morning of July 5th or the day of July 5th.
But did you guys ever have any conversations with him or Ashley regarding this case in that time frame?
Let me hide it in.
I chose to separate myself from them. I would not... I tried my best to not interact with them.
The only interaction I had with either of them after that point was at Lauren's funeral.
Can you tell me about that?
Can you tell me about that?
Oh yeah. So I drove, I went by myself to Lauren's funeral, and on my way out, they were standing in the parking area and they...
The Maxwell's?
Yes, the Maxwell's. Sorry.
The Maxwell's were standing in the parking area and were upset that they weren't allowed to go into the funeral.
Essentially, they were told you were not allowed in the premises or the property.
I don't know if that was security or family, whomever it did.
But I remember talking to them and I was just like, I'm so sorry.
I hate that for you. I wished it was different.
And that was really about it.
I tried, like I said, I tried to distance myself from them as much as possible.
Especially when we started to find, started to receive information about how they were intertwined and there's possibility of he might be charged with something or da-da-da-da-da.
I do know that Ashley and her mom, is that correct?
Yeah.
They came and...
Actually, Ashley is mom and Eric's dad are married.
So by technicality, they are a step brother and sister.
And so it was her mom and his dad, who there are a couple, came to the front door just to kinda say, hey, I'm sorry.
I hope y'all are okay. I hope everything's good.
Just letting you know we're leaving.
We just don't want to put up with this and started kind of pining me for information about how we're reisted.
And I was just like, and then the dad was like, well, he's not a killer.
He wouldn't do this. I've trusted him with my wife.
And I looked him and I go, well, I hope that's true.
Because I really hope that is true.
And then they kind of shut down. And Ashley said, well, we're gonna get a good lawyer.
And we're gonna show that they were out to get us because they can't find the right person.
And I go, well, I hope you're right. I hope you are innocent.
And as we, we're like, we'll pray for you. We'll make sure that you're, we hope that you're, it's all your true.
It's true. And then they kind of just turn around.
And like he started the dad started kind of chiming up, getting all frustrated.
And Ashley was like, you know, no, like just to stop.
And they turn around and left.
So just some, so you're saying that from what you know,
Eric, because this gets confusing, Eric Maxwell's dad is married to Ashley Hills mom.
Yes.
Eric Maxwell and Ashley Hill are what was described as common law married.
I know things I think was formal marriage ceremony or perhaps at the county.
Okay.
So on September 6th, Eric Maxwell was arrested on one count of Capitol murder and two counts of arson.
In this case, you guys were the victims of the arson charge.
Yes.
He was also charged for a, he was also charged for attempted Capitol murder for both of us and our unworn child.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
So he had his bond amount was set at 700 and probably 750,000 dollars, three quarters of a million dollars.
He remains, he remained in custody all the way until around October of 2019.
He's defense attorney had highlighted some things in the investigation.
And I think the was ultimately able, you know, in essence, say, hey, judge, this bond amounts high one and two, there's a lot of questions that need to be answered.
Because it seemed as if investigators, even after his arrest, were continuing to investigate other theories or possibly other suspects.
I mean, he, he, the, I forget the detective's name, but he, he did call basically asking if we had any updates, at least twice.
And I was, because we, every time we could, we would sit and just rack our brains with whatever info we couldn't, we could pull, we could remember.
But honestly, you know, and that was pretty much the, the gist of it.
I mean, and then we would just, we would investigate ourselves, any kind of news that we could pull up from, you know, online.
And that was, that's pretty much all we really experienced.
By a certain point, we have not been contacted or communicated with about any information, anything that we have found out has been through our own personal.
I wonder if there's any any updates or things like that.
Yeah.
So when, so in March of 2020, so Eric was, so he gets arrested in September.
The, the investigators take a, arrest warrants to a judge.
So say judge, this is our, what we believe is probable cause for the arrest of Rodney Eric Maxwell, the judge agrees signs the arrest warrants attaches the bond.
In November of 2019, the cases, the case goes before the grand jury in Wise County, where he's indicted on the charges we just discussed.
And then, and ultimately around March of 2020, the charges are dismissed.
Were you guys ever notified when the charges were dismissed?
No.
Okay.
So I want to ask you guys kind of, you know, I'll give you kind of like a 30,000 foot view of what we know.
So ultimately, we know the fire happened.
Lauren Maxwell or Lauren Whitener was stabbed at least 18 times.
Oh, it'll come in.
Yes.
Yes.
We'll offer a second.
And we're almost done guys.
So.
Yes.
So Lauren was, was ultimately stabbed 18 times.
The grand jury indictment suggested that.
This was a.
That Eric Maxwell was also attempting to or did commit an act of sexual assault.
Lauren's.
They conducted an autopsy on Lauren.
They did find biological evidence.
They do.
And locally, we call them a sane exam.
So give you background.
So I retired from fourth police department.
About four years ago.
So here, we call them something different, but there.
I think they just called it a sexual assault kit.
I believe is the term that they used.
Then they were able to find some biological evidence there.
They, that evidence ultimately went to a lab in Dallas called Swift.
It's an acronym.
It's pretty common for smaller agencies that don't have their own crime lab.
Swift's.
Why is kind of sheriff's office then consulted.
You're gold forensics out of California.
Out of California to examine the evidence and.
And ultimately what what we know.
The smoke detector seemed to be a big deal for the investigators.
Because there are three of them that had been removed from the ceiling.
And the batteries had been taken out.
There was a fourth one.
Perhaps it was the one that you guys heard faintly.
That I don't think the killers were able to they perhaps did not know about it.
And so the investigators.
Swab the smoke detectors and the batteries, which were in the trash bathroom trash can.
And the major contributor DNA wise was Lauren Whitener, which would be consistent for somebody who lives in that house.
We mentioned that they also asked DNA samples from you guys.
They compared the minor contributors and it was no match to anyone they had collected DNA from.
In fact, the one that they call battery number two had a DNA profile.
There was not encodus, which is the national DNA database.
But the pure gold forensics.
The scientists there was able to say, hey, this this sample came from a female.
And perhaps it was was Lauren's roommate, right?
I mean, if she lived there too.
And you know, we all know how annoying those smoke detectors get when the batteries are when they start a difference.
But we don't know, right?
So we don't know who that came from.
The trail of blood became interesting.
The single blade of grass became interesting because.
Investigators.
They called it a trail of blood.
We're talking from Lauren's back door to Eric Maxwell's back gate.
The only thing that we know that they took is one blade of grass.
That's why I asked you if you guys saw anything else being taken.
That blade of grass that they took did have what they believed to be blood tested presumptive positive for blood.
So they sent that to a lab and it was in fact Lauren's blood on that single blade of grass.
However, they're when I want to go going back to when when Eric and Ashley went into the duplex after the crime scene had been released.
Do you know if they went into the front door or back door?
Eric or Ashley access Lauren's duplex from the backyard area.
Had you ever seen Eric or Ashley access Lauren's apartment from the back door?
Well, excuse me.
There was a couple of times when I'm out in the I was at the backyard of our duplex.
I would see Eric would come out once or twice in those instances.
Excuse me.
It would just be like, he was doing some kind of service for her and he was fixing something.
He went to the back to drop something off and it was like, but it was like weeks and before this in this ever happened.
So I did, but I did see him at least that one occasion where he seemed to be doing some kind of service for her and he just was dropping something off from the back door.
Anyone would lock up a never directly, you know, just randomly from somewhere go to her back door, no.
Do you think it's possible that it was somebody besides Eric Maxwell, but murdered Lauren?
I have no reason to suspect otherwise because I never saw anybody.
We're almost done.
My answer would be anything as possible.
It could have been someone she knew.
It could be some random person that just happened to figure out that the door was unlocked and was able to get in.
She's a very friendly person that she had a lot of people I think acquaintances.
Like I said, she had a healthy history of boyfriends, never saw all of them.
I mean, they're always a possibility, but the fact for me of the buildup of that week or two leading to that is, you know.
Lots of arguing lots of arguing lots of back and forth, and it wasn't necessarily from my point of view, it was more or less.
Eric and Ashley were arguing, bickering, fighting like couples do, and Lauren was getting in the middle of it.
She was trying to defend her or trying to get them to compromise or whatever it was.
That's what I was seeing.
It could be anybody.
Oh, there was definitely the subject of Eric was beating Ashley.
That was something that Jessica, I believe, kind of put a bookmark in subject wise for me because she brought it up.
Oh, that's happening, and she's like, oh yeah.
Prior to this, apparently, Lauren was very upset that Ashley had been hurt that way, and she confronted Eric about it.
This is not my take on it. It's someone else telling me, but that to me was like, well, that right there, like essentially meant that Lauren was getting in the middle of whatever relationship Ashley and Eric had.
And that there was a point in time where Ashley was getting so frustrated or fed up with Eric that she threatened to just leave him and go live with Lauren.
And that was kind of the fuel to that, you know, where I think Eric had a lot to lose because honestly, he didn't work.
He didn't, you know, he provided, I think, where he could, I mean, in the sense of as least effort as possible.
And like, because I saw him do work in physical labor, but it was just kind of, but you know, on his terms and that kind of thing.
Did you guys ever like, so in Chase, and we talked about this yesterday, you know, it's different if somebody lives in a single family residence on a 10 acre track of land, they got no neighbors in sight, right?
Had did you guys ever wonder like, because the one one question I had going through this whole thing was like, how you guys, you know, she lived in a duplex.
I mean, you woke up to the smell of smoke, right? So that's saying, hey, probably a relic in your wife's eight and a half months pregnant. So that kind of protector mode kicks in for sure.
Yeah.
You know, she got stabbed 18 times in nobody ever heard anything. And it didn't even have to be connecting. I mean, logically, I would, would think that if somebody stabbed 18 times, they're quite literally screaming for life.
I mean, you could have heard it five doors down.
So was it there was some information that looked like Lauren had perhaps, I don't know if she was on probation, there was, there was some mention that she had a device on her car that she had to blow into to start the car.
And so that typically would be consistent with somebody who's been arrested for a driving offense related to alcohol, whether it's DWI or one of the others that it could be.
Was it common for her to, did you guys ever see her just get like passed out drunk? Was that common or did you ever even see that?
I see her outside talking drunk, but still collected enough.
But there, the course there were that we leading up, it was, um, they basically, um, essentially, the, um, essentially, they were, um, lead that weeks leading up, there was a lot of drinking.
So there was around holidays, um, those kind of things were common, but I never, I, I think that's why that week was so crazy was because I saw her do worse and worse things as that week progressed like, um, go drunk, she was drunk in the middle of the day and she would go to that quick trip.
And I was pretty sure she was drunk when she went and did that and, um, but she had people, um, uh, you don't take driving her there, but other than that, that was kind of the extent.
Yeah, so that, that, that, that kind of answers one question because on July 3rd was reported that Lauren Eric and Ashley all went to the quick trip, uh, believe indicator and they bought beer and food, they used Lauren's card, but Eric can actually went inside and bought it.
So that made kind of make sense and out of perhaps that's why that, why that happened.
Um, I think that's kind of it. Do you guys have any questions, um, anything, anything of the sorts?
Well, I mean, um, one of the things that I think always tracks my mind is the whole subject of how could we not have heard anything?
That's the biggest question of me and Helen. We rack our brains. I mean, we were pretty sound sleepers, but I mean, but honestly, uh, not that bad.
And, um, even, even to this day, we, we know that if you were to just make a physical contact with that wall.
I mean, they made those soundproofing walls, you know, I still, I still don't understand it.
Well, I mean, there were only a few times if, you know, if she was hanging a picture, you know, with putting a tack up or something, we could hear that a mile away.
But I think, I think either she had been silenced in the living room because they set the couch on fire and then put into her onto her bed to be burned.
They're the rest of the way because I don't know. I feel like that might have been the conclusion, but other than that, I mean, I mean, I was like this, this far from getting cameras installed because I was getting that feeling, you know, for the most part, but, um,
but yeah, that's probably the biggest thing of all this, we, you know, we just couldn't, we did not hear, I mean, she was literally ten inches from us when she was seven fire and, um, and I believe me, it, it definitely keeps us thinking.
Yeah, because, I mean, because, because my, my understanding, um, would be that the duplexes are literally just carbon copies, but split this way.
So like, if our bedroom is here, the bedroom, assuming to be hers, and maybe it wasn't, would be, would be that one and then so on and so forth.
So, but the, the questions, you know, honestly, is, um, was there anybody else has reached out to even add any life to anything to the investigation?
So you guys haven't heard anything from Wise County Sheriff's Office Texas, right?
No, no, we wrote a victim statement, um, and I can't remember when we did that, but we did write a victim statement each and then sent it in.
Um, and that's the last thing that I have even received or heard of or have been contacted about.
Okay, um, I think that'll do it. I don't want to keep you guys just keep you guys too long.
I know how well, hold on, I do have to have scrolling back to all these notes. It's like, we have like 30 pages, so everything keeps popping out at me.
Um, do you know the investigators, um, on or about July 8th, it was mentioned that they found a pair of black late text gloves approximately 200 to 250 yards from the crime scene.
Do you guys know anything about that? No. Lastly, do you guys know anybody that went by the name of Salim?
S-A-L-E-E-M? No. Okay. Okay, I think that'll do it. Like I said, I appreciate your guys this time.
Um, if anything else pops into your mind by all means, reach out to me.
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