New Media, Old Beat: RJ Ochoa on Blogging, AI & the Cowboys Content Wars | Mac Engel

It is so damn hot out. I can't even take a cold shower, and that's a true story. Mac Engel, Fort Worth Star Telegram, Ingle Angle podcast. So see, Stolen Water Media, Sunset Lounge. Got it. New media. New media. New media. Social media. Legacy media. So much media. Media. Media. Media. I am a member of the media. Have been for a long time and even I am tired of the media. This giant monolithic evil grim reaper creation that just now has penetrated all of our lives in some form or fashion. Topic du jour is new media, and specifically a person who has explored that space and made a career out of it. Normally, if you talk to somebody my age, let's go back to 45, 45 and above who has been in the media for any length of time and is older than that, they usually bristle and or vomit when they hear the expression new media. My attitude about it has been one, there really is no such thing as new media. It's as realistic as mainstream media. It's all the same thing. We're all chasing the audience however we can. New media existed for a long time, long before the creation of the Internet. You probably just didn't know it. Or if you did, you didn't think to call it new media. You called it alternative media. And usually what those were were small magazines or newspapers, maybe even newsletters printed by somebody on their own. They mailed them through the US Postal Service to their readers. And maybe they had a subscription of 4,000 to 5,000. That's what new media was then. And that's what it is now. Thanks to the internet technology and our cell phones, new media has penetrated the traditional media space and become the source of true information. I could if I wanted to given my age be the person who stands at the beach and yells out the waves. I could stand outside and yell at the sun. New media, media, whatever you want to call it, is here and part of the media sphere and ecosystem for better or for worse. And like I said, for people my age, they really have had a hard time with this transition because they think they have destroyed the institution that was or is the fourth estate. I don't know if I've said this on this podcast before, but the fourth estate, the problem with the fourth estate has always been that we were expected to function in this lane, but needed to function in a different lane that is built on capitalism. Because our existence is to act like a watchdog over the three other estates, the far more important ones. But in reality, the only way we can exist is if we make money, unless we're for a nonprofit, which is laced with its own series of challenges. So as the fourth estate, we're supposed to sit there and act like a watch dog over the people who are spending our money and making significant policy changes that affect us. But we have to do it while trying to find an audience that pays the bills and allows the people in charge to enjoy 6 figure salaries or 7 figure salaries in some cases. So we were always asking for it in some way, shape, or form. Like, there was going to be a price on this model in some way, shape, or form. In the last thirty to fifty years, we've sort of been dealing with it now more than ever before, where we are just bombarded with this reality of this is the system, and it's got its lot it has a lot of pros and plenty of cons. I'm not going to sit here and complain to the people who have occupied these new media spaces that in some cases have eliminated a lot of jobs by people who, not directly, but indirectly, effectively eliminated a lot of jobs by people that who were colleagues of mine, friends of mine, people that I've known or didn't know, but I know that they were affected by it. Because those spaces have become more profitable than the spaces that existed previously. Or you could make a case that I do now with the Fort Worth Star Telegram. I'm not gonna criticize them because they did it. It's legal, and fairness is a man made word. There have been, in the last twenty five years, a skyrocketing number of people who have taken hard work, a computer, a cell phone, and created their own media news platforms. I give them credit. As much as I may not like it and as much as I may bristle at the type of content and reporting, I guess, that they are doing, It's legal. It's fair. They did it. They made a lot of money. So I give those people begrudgingly. I shouldn't even say begrudgingly. I give them their credit. They did it. I didn't. They did it. So props to them. Whether it was with podcasts, whether it was with websites, whether it was with vlogging, whether it's through a social media app like like Instagram or Facebook way back when or Snapchat or TikTok or whatever else, they did it. And I give them credit for it. They capitalized on an opportunity and they made the most of it. Well, in my and as it and we are seeing this now everywhere, whether it's weather, news, politics, sports, or entertainment. These places now very much are part of our media consumption scene. And like anything else, there are good ones and then there are bad ones. And whether or not they're good ones or bad ones is a totally subjective call. But from my perspective, my attitude has been if they're professional and they treat this like a job and they're decent and upfront about it, then I'm then I'm like, well, okay. They're here. And just because I was trained and raised to do it one way and somebody's doing it not necessarily the way I did it doesn't make me right or them wrong or vice versa. It's just different. My big thing is it comes to these news organizations that don't do a lot of original reporting, but piggyback or take information from people who do original reporting. Two things. One, give them credit. If you don't do the original reporting, make sure you give the person who did that original reporting credit. And two, if you have access to a press conference, if you have access to that press conference as a member of the media, whatever that looks like, if you have access and you can go and you can ask questions of a player, a coach, an entertainer, whatever, then you need to shut your mouth about the people who are asking those questions. You have access. You can go. You go. If you don't like the questions, get in the car and you go out and make that effort. Those are kind of my two big sticking points about the rise of new media. But the people who occupy them and are trying to make a living at it, good luck. Seriously, good luck and I wish you the very best. And my guest for this episode is a person who has done just that and done very well at it. He is probably one of the more prominent online members of the sports media that covers the Dallas cowboys. His name is RJ Ochoa. He's been doing it for ten years with a very successful site called blogging the boys. And here's the twist. He doesn't live in DFW. He lives in the Texas Valley. And he covered the cowboys, and he is an example of what it takes sometimes to cover prominent, well, let me say, the NBA, the NFL. Sometimes you have to spend a lot of your own money to do that as you build up your own name and reputation, whether it's through traditional platforms or news organizations such as the Fort Worth Star Telegram, Dallas Morning News, Chicago Tribune, New York Times, or whatever, or you're doing it on your own for another company that is, I don't wanna say a startup, but in a different place. He did that. And to his credit, he does that. And if you are a fan of the Dallas Cowboys, you probably know RJ Ochoa. And if you're not RJ if you if you aren't familiar with him, then you are familiar with somebody who does it like him. And that is they cover something from a different place. And they cover it due in large part by reading it and watching and consuming it from a different place and following other people. And again, RJ is really good about this. He cites and gives credit to the people who are doing it. And that's kind of the place where we have to exist now. So please join me for a very interesting conversation about his career and the creation of and the existence of alternative media sites that are now very much a part of our landscape. Please welcome RJ Ochoa. I've never told anybody this, but the hook that that is hanging on, the ASU cab, I I went to the final game at Texas Stadium. I'm sure you were there as well. What a disaster that was. And the day after, I had a we had a stadium tour and whatnot and, you know, just kinda went through the the deal. And there was a loose hook in one of the lockers. So that's that's a hook from one of the lockers at Old Texas Stadium. Again, I've never shared that. I feel like I'm in I'm in the, like, you know, amnesty free zone or whatever. You're right. Like, statute of limitations is passed or whatever. And to me, I look at you and say, you're the you're the guy who's gone out and created it on his own. Do you feel that way? That's a very kind way to put it. So so thank you. I would say yes and and not that I would recommend doing it this way, if that makes sense. Absolutely. You know, I've I've definitely taken the road less traveled, and and my story is is unique, and everyone's story is unique. And I think that's the real superpower that that we all kind of have within us. You know, I started my academic journey. I graduated high school in 2008, and I started my my collegiate journey at Texas A and M. And my dad is an electrical engineer by trade. And so I just, you know, was like, hey. I've gotta be an engineer. Like, when you're that age, you don't know what you wanna do in life. So I was an engineering major at Texas A and M and just never loved it. I mean, it just it was just a thing to do, and and I I struggled at times and and really kind of lost my way. I'm an only child, so I had all this attention on me from my parents. And and and one summer just kind of, you know, in the midst of my struggle said, you know, I really don't wanna do this to to my parents since I didn't I didn't know what to do. Like, a lot of, you know, youthful people was kind of lost and kind of, you know, wide eyed. And they said, well, what do you wanna do? And I said, I really love the Cowboys. Like, that's that's I it was a really stupid thing to say to my parents, but but I'm very thankful and grateful that they said, okay. Let let's figure this out. And so I I moved to San Antonio, and I worked part time at a Dallas Cowboys pro shop, the retail stores, while I was just kind of figuring life out. And I had not graduated yet, and that was something that I was just kinda postponing and and hoping I never had to deal with in life. You know? Just maybe somehow life would work out for me. And and I met my wife, and she, you know, like a lot of people helped me get my head on straight and helped me kind of prioritize things in life. And it was around 2015 that I just, you know, finally said, man, I really wanna do this. And I started blogging for a site called Inside the Star at the time. Started writing a couple articles, getting my feet wet. Time out real quick. Time out, were they paying you? They were. It was a it was a contractor agreement. So how much did they pay you back? How much did they pay you back then, RJ? I wanna say, like, a $100 a month type thing. Like, some something I was writing five articles a week, which felt like the biggest demand in the world at the time. And now I look at that and it's like, oh my gosh. Can't believe that was that was a chore. But Right. So go ahead. I I always ask that question when I find out people who get in these entertainment or journalism jobs Sure. How little they made in their first job. Because like I was like, I made nothing. I wouldn't even qualified as a job to that point, but it it was experience. And Right. And at the time, living in San Antonio, local sports radio station had an open mic competition. And then I, you know, went to it, and I was very blessed to have won that. And I had kinda developed this, like, cowboys guy persona was was trying to interact with people on social media, try to you know, sort of learning trial by fire, trying to learn this what you described while living it at the same time, building the plane as as I was flying, so to speak. That that year I won was 10 ago. Happened to be Dak and Zeke's rookie year, which was a very, very prominent year for the Cowboys, obviously. So that that really worked out for me. The Super Bowl was in Houston. They didn't pay for me to go or anything, but they said, we know, if you wanna come get some experience, we could use some hands. I had some family in Houston and and just kind of made it work. And so all along the way, I have, you know, just made it work. And so I'd so I appreciate you you putting it that way, but but it's a lot of learning as you go. And I do think that that is modern journalism. I've since recently completed my bachelor's degree finally at long last at Arizona State in an online format. I think that I've I've just really embraced this online world that we live in, and I'm currently enrolled in a master's program at the University of Florida within the scope of journalism as well because it's something I've developed a deep passion for, obviously, alongside my career. I I have hopes and aspirations of of serving as an adjunct professor someday, you know, along these lines because you're right. I think that the the way this all works is is very different than it was when I even had ambitions of doing it a decade ago. And and and I think that there are are the advent of of technological advances through COVID, obviously, I think changed and amplified a lot of things, but you're you're right. I mean, I I was I was credentialed, through the radio station for a couple of Dallas Cowboy seasons, but the majority of my career has spent covering them has been spent covering them remotely. And, I say this humbly, but I I think I'm I'm I'm pretty good at it. There are pros and cons. To you, I don't I know that wasn't your point. There are pros certainly to being there. There are cons to being there, there, in my humble opinion as well that I experienced during my time, you know, in the locker room after games and things like that. But I've tried to take advantage of my circumstances and tried to make them work for me, and and I'm hopeful that I can continue to be that sort of same scrappy guy in the future. Well, one thing that you have done, and it's not just you. There's there's been other people who have done it, is that you have, in a way, vaulted yourself ahead of other platforms and organizations as a trusted news site for a team. It's like I said, it's not just you. They're I think they're virtually everywhere. Right? Whether it's NBA teams, I can think of people with the who do it with Dallas Mavericks and and all of that. Do you feel like or do you ever wrestle with this, RJ, because you're not necessarily local the way I would, because of where I am. You know, I'm thirty minutes or hour from where the Cowboys train and play and all that other stuff. Do you feel like because of geography that you are on the same, I can't think of a better word, level as the people who cover it locally necessarily? I definitely have confidence in myself, and and I I trust that, you know, the work I'm doing is objective and and informative. And and that's obviously you know, those are the pillars that that I and and our staff at Blogging the Boys that that what we build, what we do upon. As as mentioned, there are certainly pros and cons. And I think, you know, coming up as a as a blogger in in my mom's basement to use the conventional isms, I I think Were you literally? No. I mean, I've I've lived in Texas my whole life. I don't know of a a single person who has a basement around these these this neck of the woods. But Nobody has a basement in Texas. But, you know, when you come up as a blogger, I do think there is an identity crisis. I do think that there's an insecurity about that, right, where you you really struggle with feeling like, man, I'm not there. I'm not capturing the videos at training camp and things like that. But you learn to kind of build off of what, you know, the the local beat is doing, and the local beat is is essential in in any walk of life, to your point, entertainment journalism, political journalism, weather journalism, food journalism. Right? Like, but you you have to you we we can advance as much as we want as a society, but these things are still, you know, a prerequisite for these things to happen. And that's something that we are and and I make sure we are incredibly conscious of at Blogging the Boys is I know that, you know, aggregate journalism can sometimes dilute that and can sometimes rip that off of the local beat, and and that's never something that we do. It is important. It is critical. It's foundational to us and to me to make sure that we attribute credit to where it's coming from because without it, so many things couldn't happen. So, you know, I I didn't mean to speak about myself in a third person, but I definitely have at times struggled with that. Right? Like, I've struggled with, you know, I'm not there. I'm not getting these quotes. I'm not doing whatever. And so I think you you learn to make lemonade at that same time. You you learn how to do things. You you strengthen what you can. You you develop in ways that that you can that are within your reach. I'm I'm fortunate again that, you know, opportunities have arisen for virtual interviews, virtual opportunities, or travel opportunities, right, things that make sense. And and some of those things have changed for me as I've become a husband and a father and and have familial responsibilities and things like that. I think what makes me unique, and it's it's always difficult to talk about myself like this, is I have I've I've sort of straddled this line my entire professional career. You know, I've been credentialed. I've been at Dallas Cowboys training camp, you know, a handful of times at the radio station. I I drove from San Antonio to Dallas throughout the 2017, eighteen, and '19 seasons. You know, each way, they have gamed sometimes. I flew in a couple of times and drove back and and managed it that way. And I understand that there's a a bit of a stereotype from from blog culture and and I I think some of that is is probably fair. Some stereotypes are always fair, but I think some of that is unfair. And I I don't I don't know how I would cast myself as maybe the the answer to your question. I don't know if I'm a a blogger. I don't I I certainly believe I'm a journalist, but I think that traditional journalism and modern journalism, there's there's that gray area where you're constantly balancing and figuring out what's what. So I definitely feel like I miss out on some things, but I try not to let that enter my mind too much. I I try to, you know, ground myself with what I can do, what's controllable because I I know this wasn't your question, but I'm very grateful for my life. I'm very grateful for my professional life, especially given that it was a dream of mine, you know, for so many, you know, days and years and and and whatnot. I I pined for this. And so I'm I'm very grateful for the local beat and and how they allow us to to do what we can. But and that's why we try to reciprocate, you know, the help that we get from them whenever we can by amplifying their coverage. People like you and your colleagues, obviously. So RJ, because you've done it now for so long, I'm sure your view of all this has changed. But do you feel like the way people who cover, a news story locally Do you think there is a stigma from people like me towards people like you who are covering it remotely? By virtue of that, not all the time, but sometimes are using the reporting done by people who are there to to create their own content, their own views, and their own their own takes on whatever subject it is. Do you ever feel that? I would never wanna speak for someone else. Right? I I would never wanna generalize any kind of population that they've been Okay. Then then for you, do you do you feel that way? Do you think people in my profession look at you and say, well, gee whiz. He's he's down in the valley. He's not here. I mean I think I think that that's natural. I think that some people have absolutely felt that. Maybe some continue to feel that way. And and I, you know, I I don't know what the the genesis of those emotions are, but but I I think that it it is human nature to feel that way. You know? The the same way I feel insecure and and whatnot about, you know, my, you know, limitations or whatever geographical or or otherwise. I think it's normal and human to experience those sort of things. And that's why, you know, throughout my career, I've been very fortunate to establish relationships and make connections with with people who are on the local beat and people who cover the team from all over the world. But, you know, in that sense, everyone has their unique way of going about it. Everyone has their unique point of access. Everyone has their unique strengths and weaknesses. And so if they feel that way, I I try very hard to to earn their respect and earn, you know, a sense of credibility in their eyes. And and if I can, if that just never happens, then, you know, I'm enough at at peace with myself to to acknowledge and understand that it's just simply not in the cards. I think you mentioned a few things that I wanted to ask, and I'm I'm surprised to hear you said there's some pros and cons to it, which I guess there would be with anything. But in terms of the way you did it to to cover something remotely. To me, I'm like, there's a lot of con there's a lot of pros there. What are the pros and cons to it, RJ? I would say the pros are you know, it's my home office. Right? And my son is four years old. And and when he when my wife was pregnant, everybody said, you know, being a dad is is the best thing in the world, and and they were all right. You know? And and my wife and I, we we moved to our our current house in 2020, and we live in the same neighborhood as my parents. And so every Cowboys game yeah. It's I'm I'm my life is inordinately blessed. I'm I'm very cognizant of that. But every Cowboys game day, maybe not every, but typically, you know, I'll I'll put on a rack of ribs on the pellet grill and, you know, adjust my fantasy teams while we're doing, you know, different coverage Sunday mornings when the Adam Shepters of the world are dropping their their big hits, you know, for the day. You know, smoke the ribs all day. My parents come over. They watch the first half here. They play with my son. We eat the ribs. I've got my my laptop open, you know, live tweeting, live updating, you know, things like that, preparing graphics, sharing graphics, recording things, you know, and commercial breaks and whatnot. My parents leave at halftime. I kinda lock in. My wife puts my son down to sleep. The dogs are sleeping on my feet. The game ends. I come record a bunch of different things, write a different things, and I'm in bed asleep by, you know, depending on the time of the game, midnight, 1AM if something crazy happened, and I was barefoot the whole time. You know what I mean? Like, those are the pros. Right? You know what I mean? Like, the the cons are the cons might I loved what you said about how how the word fair is man made. I I will definitely steal that in the future, but I think the cons are all probably man made if you think about it that way. Within the construct of what you talked about, like, through the the forties, you know, teachings and the rules and the the literature and and the lack of technology and whatnot. The cons are maybe a perceived lack of credibility, a perceived inability to be able to, do x, y, or z. And, honestly, a con would be, the and this has never been an issue for me. It it may be for somebody who covers something else in life, but because I I cover the Dallas Cowboys and the local beat is so fantastic. The cons would be maybe a question I would wanna ask isn't asked. Right? It isn't asked in the scrum. It isn't asked at the local press conference. But, again, I mean, there there's not a lack of water, you know, for anyone to drink when it comes to Dallas Cowboys storylines. And so I would suppose those are the the most technical cons, but and and I you know, some people live for for that. You know, once upon a time in my life, I I enjoyed driving every weekend from San Antonio. It was part of the the thrill, part of the high, part of just the professional experience, I think. You know, throwing on my suit jacket and and walking through the bowels of the stadium, you know, after the game to go to the locker room and and watching Jerry walk in and then everybody coming in after him. You know, it's just it's just I was at a different place in life, and that's where, you know, I I just feel and and even now, this moment in time, this year, this this season so specifically, I feel so centered. I feel so grounded. I feel so exactly where I'm supposed to be, and I feel such a level of comfort in in what I'm doing. And I feel like you know, for me, I know you've asked about my, you know, professional experience, but but getting my bachelor's degree finally taken care of and being in this master's program, that has given me such a sense of confidence where I really struggled. I really had this this, you know, impostor syndrome when I didn't have my bachelor's degree. Not to place, you know, all the importance in in whatever in the world and that people can do whatever they want in life and achieve whatever they want in life, but I personally just really struggled. And so it was, you know, getting that and establishing that for me that really just kind of helped me realize that the way I'm going about it is working. You know, working for me in life. You can always want more. You can always, you know, be ambitious. And I certainly am ambitious, but I feel like my cup is very full. And I'm I'm not gonna look at someone and and measure how much is in their cup or see if their cup is larger and try to chase that. I'm just grateful that mine is filled at this particular point. I hear you on the education part. I I do. And for me, when I grew up going to college, like graduating from high school, I always marveled at this. I'll never forget my high school high school graduation ceremony, RJ. I'm sitting there. I went to a big high school in Indianapolis, Indiana, and I see all these people celebrating, like, really celebrating. I'm the youngest of six kids, and everybody in my family graduated from high school. And I'm looking at these celebrations and I'm thinking, what are you celebrating? This is like, what what's okay? There's like the sunrise. What's the I didn't I didn't verbalize any of it. Love that. But that's what I thought. Four years and me going to college and graduating, there was that's what you did in So my when I graduated from college, I had dear friends of my roommates were throwing these big parties and all. I'm like, What's the big deal? Just graduating from college, not that big a deal. That was a mistake on my part. And I I love my parents dearly, but that that they were the generation where you don't celebrate that stuff. And Sure. So it they just didn't. So when I even when I finished graduate school, like, okay. Who cares? I finished graduate school. Big deal. Well, now that I'm older on the back on that, I'm like, okay. That probably wasn't the best idea. But it did give me a sense of accomplishment and achievement graduating. That's why when I talk to people about, was it really that important? Yeah. I I don't think it's worth going into colossal debt for. That's for But look what it did for you. Even if even if you didn't need it, look what it did for you, for your identity, your self esteem, your confidence. And now, and I say this as someone who's done it, I encourage everybody to go teach a course. So when you finish University of Florida, whenever that is, go teach a course. You can find someplace near your home that will allow you to go teach a course. And the best part about it is that it gives you an appreciation, a, for the teacher on any level, but, b, what it's like to sit on the other side of the table, and you will see yourself someplace in that classroom. Somebody who's either really ambitious, trying really hard, disinterested, distracted, lying through their teeth. You'll see yourself there. And it was and it's not only that, it's been a great experience in the sense it gave me all these relationships with Sure. With people as they've gotten older, and it's been great. And I I applaud you for doing it even if you can't necessarily say, well, was it was it worth it? Yeah. It's worth it. Go do it. It's one more thing to your resume, your life that you can add. And I think you would be phenomenal at teaching, an entry level journalism course as opposed to somebody who's maybe my age or in that age range who didn't necessarily adapt to the technologies, the realities, and the possibilities that exist today in journalism that didn't when we entered the business. I think you should I think you'd be great at it. Now I don't know if it fits for your time. I will say one thing about this, RJ. No. And I mean that there's one thing I love teaching. I hated grading. Oh, for sure. Yeah. No. I I think that, you know, the experience my academic experience is obviously married with my professional experience. And and through graduate school, it's been so mean, it's been honestly so revolutionary for me to to learn things that are applicable to my professional life because I did figure so much of my professional life out just on the street, so to speak. And I think, you know, first of all, I think you you ought to give yourself more credit because a lot of and not to stereotype, but a lot of people who have been in the business for a long time are sort of averse, right, to to the new way, are are sort of averse to anything else. And and some people and and again, I wouldn't I wouldn't hate to just declare anything, but some people look at at the blogger types, at the influencer types, at the content creators, and and just say that those are less thans. Right? Be because they aren't traditional. And and I think that I would never wanna look at anything in life that way. I I would never wanna, you know, put anything in a box and say that that's not for me. And I've I've learned that over time. I've I've made mistakes. I've stumbled. I've I've assumed incorrectly. But I think that, you know, you you clearly have such a a zest and a thirst for knowledge and and for life at large. And I think that that that is an incredible superpower that you have that that most people should should have throughout all of life, not just as youth, but certainly through age and whatnot. And that's something we should certainly continually teach to future generations. But, I mean, it it is evidence of where we are. Right? And I think that, you know, I I once saw a tweet from somebody who who was sort of subtweeting somebody else. Adam Scheffter had posted something. These were older people, older sports journalists. And journalist x retweeted like a five hour old Adam Shefter tweet. And journalist y, in that same moment tweeted out, you should never ever ever retweet a five hour old Adam Shefter tweet. It makes you look lost. And and that was like my point. My my thought was so interesting and that, like, your your the implication is that if you're retweeting something from Adam Shepard five hours ago, you're you simply believe that somebody did not see that over the course of five hours. That would just be impossible. That that that would and this this was like a news you know, this wasn't like an innocuous thing. Right? This was a newsworthy sort of thing, like a trade or a free agency signing, and it was like it you know? And and I think that that humility is required. It was said in an aggressive tone. So I I I know this is a weird analogy, but it was said in an aggressive way, but it made me think like it made me think differently. It made me think like, wow. You you have to understand who you are. You you have to understand this level of humility. You have to understand the the, like, don't call it the pecking order, but you have to understand the, like, way this works. And until you do, you're just chasing it to be the same way you were when you did this thirty years ago. Right? Like, if you think I can write my newspaper column on something that happened yesterday and break news to someone tomorrow, you're just not living in today, man. Like, that isn't the way the world works anymore. And that's not a content creator take. That's just a, like, time take. Right? That's the way life is. And so I I've tried to adapt and, you know, there's a generation beneath me now that that does things differently. And I've tried to learn from them and I've tried to take from them and whatnot. But I I think your willingness to do that really separates you from, again, not to to stereotype, but from people who are have been doing this for a very long time. Yeah. Well, some of it is a a deliberate effort on my part to make sure that I I fight that. Sure. I I I do. And I think everybody does. I think everybody as they get older and they see the younger generation come up and do think, well, you're doing it wrong. What? No. Love Yeah. Like, is what is right and what is I don't know. I think I think the thing that that's something that I've come around to, which is be upfront. I can think of certain things that I wrote when I was younger when I wasn't upfront. Still bothers me that I wasn't upfront. That I may have both blindsided somebody with unintentionally. Or maybe was, for lack of a better word, cowardly, and I didn't want the confrontation. You can't do that. And, you know, I was younger, but just just youth is not necessarily a blanket, excuse. I made a mistake. And I think the big thing now is however I present it, however I package it, you try to do it upfront with somebody. So when I'm talking to people, I make sure, hey. I'm doing this. If you wanna comment on it, that's fine. And sometimes I didn't do that. I was I was okay about it. But to me, that's the big one. I can't compete as a sports journalist. I can't compete with a 25 year old, attractive female holding the little mic in front of a sports stadium saying, these are the hot new trends and going to, football games. I can't compete with that. I can't. And that's that's okay. I I can't. I I can't you do certain things, RJ, I can't do. I I can't. And I would push back on that just slightly and say that You think I'm that good looking? I well, yeah, obviously. I think Gudashin and Devan Air. I I would say, like, I I don't I used to feel that way, but I don't I don't look at anything as competition anymore. And it's very difficult. Right? It's very it's very difficult to not, you know, look at things and say like, you know, they have more followers than me. Their video did better. Their tweet on this exact same thing, excuse me, performed better. Their column is is getting more comments. Right? Like, it's it's it's human nature to compare ourselves. You know, I I made mistakes, like I said, but I have realized there is there's enough Internet for everyone. Right? Like, there there's a so you don't have to compete. Right? Like, you your success and and where you perform well can be completely different than me or than whoever. Right? Like and and we can all equally succeed. You know? There there doesn't have to be this competition. Like, again, we're we're if you're covering the same thing where I like it, you know, I I don't mean to get too vague and too ambiguous here, but, like, my point is that, like, there is enough for everyone to have their dedicated space to to live and grow and expand and thrive. Hello. It's Mike Reiner of Your Dark Companion here. Let me ask you. Are you looking for something to fill the long dead air hours of your day? Well, join the Sunset Lounge DFW and your dark companion on patreon.com, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. Replace those sad, slow hours with sports, pop culture, music woven into interesting conversations. So step inside the green door, have a seat at the bar, and get in the groove with those shows and so very much more. So I think, you know, you mentioned social media platforms. I was looking at your, your tree platform, your tree link, and you've got everything. And you had everything. Are you finding now and we all know that social media platforms, I don't wanna say come and go. What what Facebook was ten years ago is not what it is today. Now it's still an enormous platform, but Facebook by and large has come down to the boomer generation. It's it's an echo chamber of older people. And Meta has bought Instagram, so they have that that generation. We have TikTok. We have Snapchat. I have a daughter who's 17, and I see what she consumes. She has no interest in Twitter. Thank God. But, when you look at these things, RJ, how do you sit there and evaluate the weight and say, that's a good one. That one's worth it. Or do you even god. Do you even pay attention to that anymore and just throw all of it out there and see, okay. Whatever what everybody however anybody consumes it, that's how they consume it, and I'm not gonna worry about which one is bigger than the other. I think my north star is that I'm a consumer myself. Right? I I saw the new Spider Man movie last week. It was awesome. Right? Is it any good? It was fantastic. I mean but I'm I'm of the general like, he's my guy. Like, you know, I've seen Spider Man movies from when I was in middle school to now having a a four year old. You know what I mean? Wait. Are you a Tom Holland guy? No. I'm a Tobey Maguire guy. I'm just saying, like, the character has has been, you know, he's he's he's been in my life for, like, so many major touchstones and cornerstones anyway. But, like, I you know, I browsed TikTok and saw a bunch of reactionary things and and newsy things. I saw a bunch of tweets about it. Right? I saw I I loved and liked Instagram posts about it. And so, like, I was consuming this subject on on all these places. And so it it just is logical to me that that's where people wanna talk about the Cowboys, right, or or consume things. And, you know, for a long time, was and I think I think this is maybe like a journalist specific thing. Maybe it's even a sports journalist specific thing, but, like, Twitter was my whole world. Like, every everything I did was all on Twitter, and I I I forewent, which I don't know if if if that's the past tense of forego. But I forewent places like like Facebook and whatnot, and and I regret that. I I wish that I'd I'd, you know, cared for and nurtured those platforms in parallel with Twitter over the course of my career to date. And I've been very intentional about, you know, growing in those places as well because some of that was, you know, how how how interesting Twitter has gotten over the last couple of years. And and the tease is that kind of you. The the tease that it could at any one moment go away. And I I had this thought, you know, there was one day where, like, I don't know what was happening at Twitter or HQ or whatever, but, like, everybody was acting like it was gonna, like, die that day. And I thought to myself, like, well, what would I do? Like, what like, if if my whole career would be over because Twitter went away, then I have done an incredibly poor job at establishing an online presence and an online footprint. And so I've really tried to expand myself. And and part of that reason as well is that it can feel like Twitter is the whole world or whatever is your whole world, whatever is your primary platform, but it's not even like a planet. You know what I mean? It's it's just as it's a place. And, you know, I'm I'm fortunate to have a a sizable audience on Twitter, but I I stepped out into TikTok and nobody knew who I was. And that's a really difficult thing to come to terms with. Right? It's a really, really hump because you feel like, man, I got this. Like, I'm I'm this badass. I'm rolling here. And then you go somewhere new and they're like, who the hell is this guy? And and I just I I, you know, I do not I did not enjoy that. And I I I also say that humbly. And so I've I've tried to be everywhere. That's sort of my mantra. That's my disposition. And I'm not on Snapchat. So if your daughter is, she's not, you know, seeing, you know, my daily updates and whatnot. So that I gotta work on that. But I I try to be anywhere and everywhere that that anyone is accessing, and and that is really how I kind of live my content life. I try to post daily several times a day. Obviously, we're not getting into a time where where that is, you know, necessary because it's training camp time and football season and whatnot. But this all for me, this wasn't your question. But two years ago, SB Nation shut down our podcast network. That was a very difficult thing, and they've they've been somewhat strict. And I'm very grateful for my employer and and would never speak ill of them, but they've been strict in allowing or not allowing us to pursue other podcast opportunities. And when that happened, you know, it was very difficult because that was that was sort of how I went about things. It was like, okay. You know, this trade, this move, this injury, like article, podcast. And it it that can also feel like your world. And when when I didn't have that, I didn't know how to, number one, express myself, but number two, gain traction. Number two, like, put that online footprint in the world. And so I've landed on this this vertical video strategy, I would say across this calendar year specifically is is when I've really given it this full go. And I've learned to sort of and there are pros and cons to everything, and and there's merit to podcasting and YouTubing obviously. But I've learned to sort of look at my MO, my operation as my show that would be a podcast is just on all the time. Right? It's it's just on anytime you open your Instagram app. It's on anytime you open your TikTok app. You're just getting fed that specific segment that I want you to be fed at that particular moment in time. It's not a conventional episode, obviously, but I'm trying to catch you, you know, when you're in line at the DMV, when you're in the bathroom, right, when you're in in the school pickup line, whatever. I'm trying to give you some piece of my, you know, proverbial show at that moment in time. And so the more places I can have a show, so to speak, is is how I evaluate where, you know, something becomes a part of my daily routine or not. So now that it's 2026 and you've been doing this for a number of years now, more than ten years, I don't know if you have an evolved view of this definition the way I do, but you're a lot younger than I am. And I'm curious, do you think we're sports journalists anymore, or do you think we're sports and sports content influencers? I I think you should be a journalist, first and foremost, but I don't think that that is like this requirement. I I'm very proud to have been and continue to be journalistically trained, and and I know you are as well. And I think that there's more than merit. There's, you know, a necessity to understanding certain things and certain rhymes and rhythms. And I think it's particularly necessary, obviously, if you're in the newsroom, if you're in the press conference and things like that. Like, there are things you learn not maybe not necessarily completely about etiquette, but about process and and about the logistics. So, you know, the logistical side of things, I should say. But I I think that most people are content creators, are influencers, whatever. If you're if you are doing more than publishing a column, you are an influencer. You you are a content creator. Right? Like, if So how would you define so hang on. How would you define me? I think you're a content creator. I I think you may like, the the fact that you have an Indiana Jones relic behind you Yeah. Makes you a content creator. Right? Like, you were just a sports journalist, you would you would only have, like, newspaper clippings of your columns. Right? Oh, wow. Okay. Like like That's interesting. Like, if you have ever woven in, you know like, I I reference Indiana Jones swapping out the idol all the time. Like, that that's a I have, like, 12 jokes in life, and that's one of them. I I I'll just slow burn the other 11. But, I mean, my my point is if you are if you are sharing any part of yourself, whether that's your your interest or disinterest, your wants, your wishes, your likes, your passions, your loves, you are an influencer. You are influencing someone to feel a certain way. You are you are purposefully and intentionally evoking emotion, even if that's negative emotion, even if that's confrontation, even if you're a troll or a rage bait or whatever. But I just I don't think that I think that, you know, honestly, like, AI slop is like I don't wanna say true journalism, but, like, that's the only thing that is, like, just matter of fact down to the point. Like, if you are if you are telling me any kind of story, you are influencing my opinion, my belief. If if you are down the road, matter of fact, black and white, sure. Fine. You know, print the column. You know, send it to your editor. But I I think everyone online is a content creator in in some sort of different way. In what way do you feel like AI is a threat to our jobs? I don't personally know of anybody who legitimately writes with AI. And I I hear, like, and see criticisms of that all the time. May may maybe people are doing that. I was I just that that idea seems so foreign to me. And I think, like, that's generally where my mind has gone. It's like people saying that the AI is gonna, like, write write the postgame article or whatever. Mhmm. And I know I kind of referenced that with the swap comment, and and I could see how it it could produce that. Rather, it could it could tell a story in in a factual way and tell you, like, you know, deck through x for y, you know, and they won a to b. I I honestly think the, you know, the most, I think, terrifying or however you wanna put it possibility is is the creative aspect. If AI can create some sort of, like, vertical video like I share, if AI can create some sort of, like, you know, person who tell who who gives you a recap of Monday's Dallas Cowboys padded practice and and can automatically invoke different highlights that they can find and source on the Internet and they can do all that, I mean, that that could replace television. That, you know, that could replace film. That that could replace more than just print, right, at a certain point in time. So as it continues to evolve, those things are are definitely treacherous. I think it has you know, some people are staunchly opposed to it at all. I think it has a place. I think it it it can be a place where you can brainstorm perhaps or or just sometimes it's I think that's helpful in general. I think it's helpful to just talk to someone and and, you know, just talk out loud. Right? Like, people love to say like, oh, I I wrote the angry email and I didn't I wrote it to nobody and then I I trashed it. Right? Like, sometimes it's just helpful to, like Yeah. Get your thoughts out like that. I I don't use it for any, you know, creative work. I I feel like I I I don't, you know, have any misgivings about somebody who's brainstorming it that way. But, yeah, if you're using it to, like, write a full article, you know, okay. That's a little interesting. But I do see and I've been on some YouTube shows where people, make their their intro songs and their outro songs and things like that. And I I think that's impressive. But I I do worry about, obviously, the if if we're just at the tip of the iceberg here, like, at a certain point, you know, it's I mean, we're we're we're in a fractional level of AI. And so Yeah. What is what is 10% of the way look like even? And what is 50%? What is 80%? So on and so forth. Just to give you background on that, a number well, whenever the Dallas Mavericks traded Luka Doncic, two years ago, think a good friend of mine said, have you used AI to write anything yet? I said, no. Thought hadn't thought hadn't even crossed my mind. So he said, you should use Grock to do it. I'm like, no. I'm not gonna do that. Grock is obviously the AI tool Right. Created by Twitter. And Twitter has changed exponentially since Elon Musk bought it. It's just a cesspool now. And I it it really had a dramatic impact on me. Like, that was really telling to me when you you go into the world of Snapchat and somebody's like, who is this guy? And and the ego below it can be. I've been on oh, jeez. I mean, I was on Instagram, and nobody cares. And, you know, with me, I'm dealing with a much, much smaller audience than probably you in certain areas or certain other people, and it's bigger than certain in certain, other outlets and platforms. And I've I understand that. But the Grock thing was totally new to me. So this guy asks Grock, write me a Mac ankle column on the Luka Doncic trait. And it does it in, like, I don't know, twenty five seconds, RJ. Nothing. The guy emails it to me. And I'm like, wow. It's pretty close. Now it was like RJ, it was like 10 miles long. Right. And it was an exaggerated version of my own voice. Obviously, I'm pretty dry and sarcastic. And but it it got it. And to me, what I like in this too somewhat is that if you go to if you were to if you were remember when you were a kid and you went to a grocery store and there were seven different people occupying the checkout lines to buy your groceries and to leave. Well, now when you go to that same grocery store, there's one person occupying the checkout line. And then everybody else, it's automated. So you have eight different checkout lines being operated by one employee just to make sure the technology that there's no hiccup. And to me, that's how I've seen AI worm its way into this. It's here. It has a place. One thing I have definitely noticed, it's not foolproof. Oh, for sure. And that was one of the mistakes that I made. I thought, it's AI. It's right. And I've had multiple times. I'm like, wait a minute. That's wrong. So I know it's here. And I heard Ben Affleck make this point about AI, which is it doesn't know when to stop. And there's there's some validity to that. But I think one thing for you and I, and I don't know if it applies more I think it applies both to the same. It's here and it's doing things. The one thing you and I both know about technology is that it usually only gets better and cheaper. Now, does that mean my career is over? I hope not, but have to adapt to that, and I have to use it a little bit more as a tool. I've used it a little bit. Not a lot, but I've used it somewhat. But I'm fascinated to see by what the 15 year old who's just or even your son who's four and how he's gonna grow up with it. And he's not gonna think anything of it. Whereas for you and me, more for me than you, it's still like, wait. What is this is Greek to me. What are we doing? And for him, it won't be anything. I'm gonna ask you one more thing. I'll let you go. So let's just pretend for a minute that in three to five years, you are teaching a college course. And you're gonna see wherever it is that you are teaching. You're gonna have your resume down there. And some young person, some 18 year old freshman is gonna see it. And they're gonna come to you, RJ, and they say, I really wanna do what you do. I mean, you've got the job that I want. What would you tell that person? Because you're gonna get that question. I think the the first and foremost, for for me, my my faith has has driven every decision I've ever made. And and I I I mentioned all the lucky breaks that it feels like I've gotten. I do feel like and and everyone's entitled to their own opinion and and and beliefs and whatnot, but I I do feel like that has been God working in my life. And and for me, I heard a sermon that that really molded my approach and and what I would would tell this person. And and again, if it's not in a a faith based way, then then it is what it is. But the sermon was about doing the the pastor on on the stage had a ladder, and he talked about how in life, you know, God works the impossible. And, again, believe what you wanna believe, but we have to do the possible. Right? Like, we we have to climb this ladder in our life in in whatever that that is for you in in whatever walk or or issue you're facing. You have to climb that ladder. You have to to do the the possible things to put yourself in a position to where god can finish. God can do the impossible parts of your life. And so for me, I I really adopted that mindset when I would drive Dallas every week from San Antonio. I mean, it was a a five hour drive, and it it was it was grueling. And and like I said, it was exciting at the same time, but it it there were, you know, stopping at Buc ee's, eating Whataburger on the road, meeting friends at George's in Waco, you know, things like that. Those those things were taxing. But but to me, it was those things were doing the possible. Those things were doing the possible because I was struggling to find a job, a full time job to be able to do this, but it felt like I'm just doing this. Some people could call that deem that putting in the hours, putting in the work, putting in your due service, whatever. But but I categorize it as doing the possible. So would tell this young person, what are the possible things? What are the controllable things in your life that you can do? You want this job. You wanna be able to do this. You wanna be on SportsCenter. You wanna be on Snapchat's live sports show, whatever. Like, okay. That's great. That does not you don't go from here to there. Like, what is the in between? What are the things that you can control? How can you learn? How can you grow? How can you can develop? Can you start a substack? Can you start writing? Can you start a podcast? Can you start a TikTok? Can you start creating? Can you start learning how to edit? Can you start learning how to control AI? Whatever it looks like in three to five years as you mentioned. Can you start telling me other people who do what you wanna do? Because, you know, to to to spin that, you know, when I got into this, there were people who I deeply admired and still do, but there were people who I said, that is exactly the job I want. And that has changed. Right? That that changed several different times. I bet it did. And and so who who who are other people you like? Who are people you don't like? Who are things that you, you know who who's doing something that you feel like I could never ever wanna do that? Why don't you wanna do that? You have to answer all of these questions, and you have to live through all of this. I would categorize that as as something that is also under the umbrella of doing the possible. And in the process of doing all that work, you'll meet enough Mac Engels and you'll meet enough Arjio Choas to hopefully put yourself in a position to obviously have a network of people because it it it it is just a dream, obviously, at the very beginning. And if you want that dream to come to fruition, in in my mind, in my estimation, you have to do that possible, and you have to do that work. And a lot of that can and and sometimes is be education, But a lot of that is being active on Twitter, DMing people, being active on Instagram, learning how to share things, learning what works, learning what flops, jumping are are you also willing and prepared to, hey. This trade happened at 2PM on Sunday while I was at, you know, Easter brunch. I've gotta step away and go live on Instagram for thirty minutes. Are you willing to do that? Did you know you even had to do that? Like, those are the the the types of things I would want them to learn and experience and grow and at least start thinking about. Because at 18 years old, you're a huge idiot and you don't know everything, But but you know enough to know what you want. And I would I would just start asking people to start molding that if that all of that jumbled answer makes sense. Well, the one thing I always tell them is that go find out for yourself. Don't listen to anybody else who tells you you shouldn't do that. Unless it's some criminal enterprise, I always tell them because my business, and I'm sure you I'm sure you probably heard it when you were young, don't do this. There's no money in it. It's too hard. It's too this. It's too that. It's just too many things. And I think if you talk to anybody who's done any profession for any length of time, doctor, lawyers, accountant, CPA, whomever, they'll all tell you not to do it. They'll be like, oh, go sell drugs to kids in Africa. Go sell guns to homeless people. Seriously, RJ, I hear it all the time. Like, I'm not gonna do that. So when I was teaching, I'm not teaching now, I would always tell them, go find out. Go find out if it fits for you. It may not because when are games? Nights and weekends. When all your friends are gonna be going out. You're gonna be going to work. Now it's a cool job, but that's when they're going that that's when they're going out to have their life. They're going out to socialize around the game that you're attending to work at, that you will be coming home at you mentioned it. 12:00, 01:00 in the morning. Go see if it fits for your life. It may. It may not, but you won't know it until you actually try to go do it. And you did it. You you like you said, you built the plane as you were kind of flying it. Not everybody's willing to do that. And that's okay. That That's totally okay. I've known plenty of people who tried it and said, Yeah, this really isn't my thing. Well, at least you know. At least you know what the money looks like. At least you know what the lifestyle looks like. By doing that, you can tell yourself, I tried it. I'm really glad I tried it. It just wasn't for me. Obviously, it's been worth it for you. You've done a great job in doing something by creating it for yourself and others too, where people like me, however many years ago thought, well, that doesn't even exist. That's it's like a negative. There was a stigma to it. And now you're very much part of the fabric to our media culture. And like you and I both know, media culture can kinda be can be kind of a four letter word sometimes and deservedly so. But I think what you guys have done has have been a has been a terrific complimentary piece to sports media consumption, whether it's the Cowboys or Dallas Mavericks or, you know, LA Kings or or anybody else. I'm gonna ask you one more thing. Lied. You and I both know well, you and I both know the Cowboys suck, have sucked for thirty years. It's absolutely baffling to me. You were a fan because you grew up in Texas, and you thought eventually you've gotta think. Eventually, they're gonna break through and win a divisional round game. Right? Yeah. Right? Isn't that gonna like, eventually? Right? Why? Like, the Bengals won divisional round games in the last thirty years. The Cowboys have not. So once again, it's July or pardon me, August now. So this is the time of year when we think, oh, the cameras might be pretty good this year. You've done it. Lay it on me. What are they gonna do this year? I think they will be I I used to always answer this question by saying, when you're doing your Christmas shopping, they'll be relevant. Like, that that I can promise you that. Like, when you're when you're out at the stores doing your Christmas shopping, they they will be, like, a part of the conversation. Yep. Which is difficult to say annually. Like, they people people love to, like, make these sweeping statements like that they have just sucked for thirty years. No. They have been very good. They have just weirdly been only good enough to not be the good you expect or want them to be. But I think that they have as they have a a they're in the the group of teams who could pull it off. I I completely believe that. But so I I I think that they're gonna be really good. I I don't know that they'll win the Super Bowl. And some of this is that they have just had some horrible luck. Right? Like, I mean, they had to go they got Aaron Rodgers twice in the division around. Right? Like, they have not had the, like, Daniel Jones giants in the division around the way the two thousand twenty two eagles did or the quarterback list niners in the NFC championship game the way that that same team did. And some of that is is you know, you earn your luck. Right? You you earn the top seed, things like that. So I think that they they're definitely gonna be in the mix. I think it's gonna be a fun season, and and, you know, I want that. I this this is my life. Right? Like, this is my profession, but it is also my family enjoys it as I mentioned, and I want it to be fun. These last two years have just been such a dread that that I just I want to experience it, and and I want I wanna blend passion with profession, which is what I've tried to do over the course of my career. And and this season feels like the the best, most recent opportunity for that. And I did wanna say before I left to answer your pen what was, I guess, your penultimate question about what I would tell the 18 year old. I would also say that you for as much as technology and things like this and all these things sort of change, to to come back to, like, passion and and humanity, they do not ever underestimate the human impact of of anything, of networking, of talking, of of interacting with of experiencing. Yeah. Because when I was driving to and from Cowboys games and going to the locker room and things like that and feeling out of place, it was one interaction from Mac Engle that that made a significant impact on me that I'm certain he doesn't remember. Standing at DeMarcus Lawrence's locker and the way the scrums work inside there, there's you know, some players obviously garner more of a crowd, some not so much. But this one, this particular game, DeMarcus had a a bigger crowd, and I was up against the actual locker, up against the, like, base of it. And I was about to fall over, and Mac Ingle held me up by my backpack. And that was a really kind thing that I've just never ever forgotten. And and so your human impact, your small moments, those things like that, those things can can help feel validation, and those things can help you feel like you belong when you are feeling insecure, when you are feeling invisible, when you are feeling like you have no idea what the hell you're doing. Those things make you feel seen in a very, very, very important way. So do not ever forget that you're a human and that everybody around you is as well. Did I do that? You did. Yeah. So I didn't make that up. You really did. I was I I mean, I I I was somewhat overdramatized. I wasn't like about to tip over, but I definitely was was not comfortable. I was I was like leaning in in the local TV crews were there with their big cameras and things like that. So I was getting pushed in a way where I probably was going to fall, and you helped brace me, and that was very kind in that moment. I what year was that? This was if I had to guess, it was probably like 2018 ish. It it was either '17 or '18 is is the most specific I can be. A home game in '17 or '18. I'm glad you didn't fall down. Don't don't be glad. That was your your decision making that saved That's very kind of it is it is funny, though, how that was nothing. And you still remember it eight years later. And I I have moments like that. And, you know, you were talking about how important it is face to face, and I've told any number of I've told everybody this. How you do in your job? Now it's changed somewhat because of technology. How you do in your job from nine to five will dictate a lot. But if you're really gonna get ahead, it's not what you do nine to five. It's what you do from five to nine or nine to twelve. That that's where you and sometimes that's going out and hanging out and then just getting to know people socially. So when those people go out and elsewhere and maybe have a job and they give you a call and they know your work, what they really know is they know you. And they're get they're buying you because you're a good guy or you're you're a hell of a good professional, male or female. And think that's a really important lesson. I wasn't as good at it when I was younger as I should have been. I wasn't bad at it, but I wasn't as good at it. The five to nine, I wasn't as good at. And the nine to midnight, I was not very good at. But those are important things about just know, phones are great. DMs are great. All those technologies, but nothing. Especially in light of all those technology things that we have to reach people with, Most of which now people like you and me spend a lot of time just sort of guarding up against because it's such an invasion of our time. Nothing beats sitting across from somebody and standing across from somebody and reaching out, shaking their hand, looking them eye to eye, and making a connection with them. That that stands out more than ever now because it it takes so much time and effort compared to this. R. I've I've taken this was great. This this was phenomenal. I've I love doing stuff like this. No. I mean, I I really do appreciate that, Mac. And and that story I told seriously, it it it was you know, when when I was such an outsider, was really comforting to to just feel seen by a single person at at a at a moment in time. And so I really appreciated that. Oh, appreciate it, man. Have a good rest of your started. You too. Bye. See you later. This is a Stolen Water Media production.