KVIL Legend on Ron Chapman, Chuck Berry’s Cash Demand & Radio’s Future | Steve Eberhart | YDC Ep 261

Nobody would have thought that I would be the one. Ryder, sports talk. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. With a big mic. Oh, okay. Alright. Yeah. Okay. Now I get it. We got a lightning strike, boys. What happened over there, Grego? We had a little lightning strike right outside the window. Alright. Alright. Here's a tip for all these Americano league teams. Don't wait. You said tip. Yeah. T. I'm kidding. With a p. Keep jamming. The ticket the ticket colon. Nothing but a big Gen X jerk off set. Is this a cool night or what? I thought somebody would hear that and go, bullshit. I'm back, bitches. Well, hello once again, one and all, and welcome to another episode of Your Dark Companion. We are glad you were with us no matter where you are, no matter how or when you may be receiving this podcast transmission. Maybe you're watching live. That's cool. We appreciate it. Maybe you're gonna watch later on. That's cool too, and we do appreciate that. I would be Mike Reiner. We are here inside the nurturing biosphere of the mothership on this, the September 16. And this would be episode number 261. And today, we have, a guy that I've known, been pleased to know for some time now from the world of radio. I, along the way, during my time in the game, was fortunate enough to make a lot of, acquaintances, make a lot of friends. And, yes, we have not been shy about inviting these people onto the podcast. If you followed us through the previous 260 episodes, you know that that we are, only too eager to get some of them on here and let them tell their story. And today, we have a guy that I have never actually worked with. I just know him through being in the game. He knows me through being in the game. And somewhere along the line, we got to talking, and, we went, hey. I like that guy. And, apparently, he said the same thing. And so, hence, here he is today. He is he's been an on air personality. He is a radio station owner, if you can imagine that. You know him from KVIL most likely because he spent years there working with Ron Chapman, which always fascinates me. He is the great Steve Everhart. Well, you, Mike. It is a pleasure to be here. It is always good to see you. I cherish your friendship as much as I think you do. Mine and mutual admiration society is in effect. It is indeed. How you been? I'm good. Things are going well. It's a very busy time. I have a lot of things that I've got going on, not only owning the radio station and doing the morning show every morning from my house, which is nice. I can just wake up and walk into the next room in a studio not unlike this, and go on the air and do the show. I tell people all the time I can get a lot more done at home than I can when I actually go to the radio station. So owning the radio station, being on the air, seriously, in small market radio as this is, KGAF up in Gainesville, it is just amazing how much you actually have to do yourself as the owner. Yeah. We have limited resources, limited employees, but it's a lot of work. But you've got to love it to be able to put in the effort that it takes to make it successful. We have been. I'm on my, I think nineteenth year now of running the radio station and owning it. And it's been an uphill battle for a long time. I went several years not making a penny until we got it turned around. And fortunately, that's not the situation now. But it is a lot of hard work. I also am on the board of directors of the Texas Association of Broadcasters, and had served seven years had to take a mandatory one year off and just was reelected to the board of directors. And I'm back serving on that board in Austin. We just had a meeting last week and are working on several endeavors, one of which was just approved yesterday, which is the AM radio bill, which of course I'm very passionate about. I spent a couple of years going up to Washington, being a lobbyist, which I never imagined, and going through the halls of Congress and talking to members of Congress about this, and encouraging them to vote for this radio bill, which is very, very important to small market radio stations and large market AM radio stations as well. And basically what was happening is car manufacturers were wanting to take AM radio out of cars, because they eventually want to own the dash, and be able to have subscription services that then give them a revenue stream for the rest of the life of that car. Because at this point, when you drive it off the showroom floor, they have no more revenue stream. So that was what this was really about. And they were wanting to get AM out first, then they would probably go for FM and then they would put their own player in there and start charging you a monthly fee. So we successfully lobbied the house yesterday approved it, it'll go to the Senate. And the President has already said that he will sign the bill. So we're hopeful for that. So that's one of the big things I've been working on for the last two or three years, in addition to running the radio station. Wow, that sounds like a lot. It's been a lot. It has. And I also as a member of the board of directors of TAB, Texas Association broadcasters, we still work on quite a few other endeavors as well, every year that benefit broadcasters, not only radio but television, small and large. It's quite an ordeal, but I have great passion for what I do, as you know, and so I really do enjoy the work. Do you remember when you first heard about that bill when it first started to pop up or Yeah, like three or four years ago. What'd you think? I thought, why would you do that? That's crazy. Interesting. And Did you think it was realistic? Because apparently, yes. And in fact, several manufacturers of automobiles already took AM out. I had to have a leased car while mine was in the shop the other day. It was a Volvo and it did not have AM radio. They already have cars that don't. Ford Motor Company took it out and then people complained so much that they put it back in. And what we learned from that was it wasn't even a device that they had to reinstall, it was just a software update. And so that's all it was. Know that what the law will prescribe is that new cars manufactured for use in The United States will be required to have AM radio in the car for free. So that hopefully will pass and this shenanigan that the car and automotive industry was trying to get past Americans will be passed. Hopefully. Hopefully. AM radio is near and dear to me because when the ticket first started out, we were on thirteen 10AM and that was it. That was all we had. Right. And limited signal and, you know, it was one of those situations where you had to really want to listen to it. You didn't have an internet stream, you didn't have an FM companion. And fortunately in my radio station, we have both. We have an FM low power local station that simulcasts what we do. So we're not only on AM, which gets down to probably Plano, but the FM is really mostly just Cook County. Yeah. But it's a great signal. And then again, you know, with your phone, you know, you can listen online on our app anywhere in the world. That's what just blows me away about the industry now is we can be doing a little broadcast of a football game or the newscast or just a show on my little station in Gainesville, Texas, and I'll get emails from people who are serving in the military in Afghanistan or something like that, who are listening to the football game on Friday night or something. It just blows my mind to think that you can be heard anywhere now. Our little podcast may be heard in China for all we know. It likely is by someone. Somebody. We have really high numbers in India for some reason. India. India. And now for those who may not have heard it, what what do you do on KGAF? What kind of station is it? It's your typical small market station. And I just recently had a jingle done that says small town, big sound. And I think that really says it all. We are small town, there are certain things that we have to do that are small town, but we don't make it sound, you know, small town. We take the expertise that I have from major market radio and put it to work to make whatever it is small town sound big time. And it's as professional an operation as I would put up against any Dallas station or whatever. It has a great on air sound. We program it like it is a big time Dallas type station. And the ratings are actually done there. And each year for the last several years, it's come out number one locally in Cook County, which interesting because it's up against all the Dallas stations and a lot of them out of Oklahoma as well. And in the cases of those stations, they've got a budget that is maybe a 100 times what mine is, I can promise you. But we do super serve the local market. And I think that's the difference, know, it still blows me away, truly, to walk into a restaurant or something like that up there and somebody walks up to me and says, I listen every day, I love what you're doing, blah, blah, blah, blah. And as many years as you and I have been in the industry, to hear that still just blows me away and pleases me greatly. Oh yeah. It's the opium of the business. It's the ultimate compliment. It's the ultimate acknowledgement of all the effort that you put into this, you know, that somebody out there actually listens to this and gets it and likes it. Are you you doing any talk shows or is it all music or No. We we, and I do the morning show. It's a combination of music, news, sports, and a little bit of talk in there too. We have a segment that is our call in show where people call in and sell their chickens and looking for various things, you know, and all that fun stuff. We have characters that call. We have a guy named Paul who's a farmer who has frogs that sing when it's about to rain. So he'll call in and give us a frog report. We have people that call in with just funny things that they have to say every day. And it's kind of just like a little club, know, and people it's the most listened to thing on our station. Is it a little bit hokey? Is it a little bit corny? Is it a really small town? Yeah, it is. But it's fun. And people get into it. And they love tuning in to hear other people. And, you know, that's really the key to it is letting the listeners be the star of the show. I'm just a conduit for whatever they want to come up with. You play music? Not during that segment, that's a thirty minute talk segment from 08:30 to nine, but we do play music during the rest of the morning and it's a mix of, I really would say it's kind of like what we used to play at KVIL, a mix of the current pop songs, maybe some crossover country songs, a lot of songs from maybe the 70s, 80s and 90s and such. There's Taylor Swift, there's Teddy Swims, there's new stuff, there's songs from way back, we might play Abba, we might play Bob Seger, it's a mix, but nothing too extreme, nothing too rock and roll, not too urban, not too country, not too slow. It's just kind of a mix right down the middle that most people find listenable and we try not to run anybody off with anything. The mainstream. It's very mainstream. And you know, for years at KVIL, I was the music director, so I was the guy that figured out what we were going to play. And so I use those skills to this day in choosing what we're going to add. And one of the big things that we used to do at KVIO, the record companies would come in and just beg us to play a song and if we just didn't think it fit our format, we just flat didn't play it, no matter if it was number one or anything. And I still subscribe to that philosophy today on my little small time station. But yeah, we have a good time. I bounce off of things in the news every morning, if something comes up, I'll be talking about the Emmy Awards the night before, maybe the cowboy game, which there wasn't a whole lot to talk about the other day. But we are topical, relatable, and it's kind of like if you were riding to work with me in the car, what would we be talking about? We do that, we take calls and sometimes callers have better things than say than I do. And we let them have it if they do, let them have airwaves. And it's always fun for me to field a call and have them say something that I didn't think of this morning that is really the comment of the day, if you will. Yeah. How old were you when you figured out that this is what you wanted to do? Oh my god. Because you seem like the kind of guy who who knew he had this sort of thing in him all along from, like, when you were, like, really young, like, maybe I was. Going back to your teen years. I was. I'll tell you, I grew up in Lindsay, Texas, which is four miles west of Gainesville where my current radio station is. Tiny town of two fifty, I believe, and I think our class was maybe 30 or 35. We have our fiftieth reunion this weekend too, by the way, which can be really interesting. A lot of those people I haven't seen since then. So I'm really looking forward to that. But I can remember very vividly in the summer when I was 12 years old, and I was working on my uncle's farm, we lived out next to my uncle's farm and we would help in the summer bale hay, combine and all of that. And at the age of 12, my job was to drive the tractor with a trailer behind it and pull up next to the combine, They would dump the oats in the trailer, then I would go back to the barn and scoop out the oats. Not a lot of fun in 100 degree Texas heat. And the first week I would have to sit out there on that tractor and just sit there and sweat, waiting for the guy way across the field to wave me over to come get the grain. But you didn't get to wear shorts and flip flops to do this either. I think we wore a pair of cutoffs and that was it. Really? Oh yeah, I mean half the time we ran around out there without shoes on and certainly not a shirt. We had great tans, don't get me wrong. But it was work. And at the age of 12, it wasn't something that I really was interested in. But that's what you had to do. I got paid $5 a week and after the first week I went to the local Gibson's Discount Center, remember them, and bought a little red and white Arvin transistor radio, not much bigger than a cell phone today. And so I would go out there the whole next week And while I was sitting out there waiting and working and driving and scooping oats, I would listen to the reigning top 40 of the time, you know it well, the mighty eleven ninety, KLIF. And I would listen to Cliff and we listened to Cliff at our house all the time anyway, because there wasn't a lot on TV in the summers and weekends and things like that. So radio was it. And so around our house, we had radio on almost all the time. I had couple of three other older brothers who were in little local rock bands. And so they would be listening to find out what song they wanted to learn and they would practice in our garage and all that. So music was always around us, radio was always around us. And then I really got the bug though working on that tractor that summer when I was 12, listening to Cliff because I was isolated and that was all I was listening to. And most people really got into the music that was being played, you know, and I liked that certainly. But I got sort of tuned into the DJs. And I thought, man, now that would be a cool thing to do. Be able to sit in a radio station, probably air conditioned, and play records. That's a job. I want that job. And I mean, I'm telling you at 12 years old, I remember going back to school that year and telling friends of mine in school, they'd always inevitably come up with that conversation. Hey man, what do you want to do when you get out of school? I want to go to work at this factory. I want to go to college. I want to do this. I want to do that. And I would say, I want to be a radio DJ. And they would just kind of look at me like, what? Nobody wanted to be a radio DJ. I didn't know anybody that was a radio DJ. I didn't have any concept of how you even possibly would become one. You know, it really didn't cross my radar screen back then. But had it and had I had I thought of it in terms of this being what I wanted to do when I grew up, and I threw it out there with my friends, I would have gotten the same thing. Yeah. Because they just kinda looked at me like, who wants to be a radio DJ? You know? That's even a job, really? But, you know, I, I never forgot about it. I kept studying the art by listening to the different DJs and learning which ones were better than others and which ones had traits that I liked. Cliff was the big station at the time and I would listen to the likes of Ken Dow, my good friend, Michael O'Shea, Dave Ambrose, Mike Seldon, Cousin Lenny, a lot of those guys that you remember. Remember them all. Remember them well and each one of them was very different in their own way, but very good. And in ensuing years, I became friends with all those guys. Some are still around, some are not. But by the time I was about 14, 15, I was like really into radio. And I was working at my brother's gas station at that time. And I remember we were working, I think it was like a Sunday night, we closed down at like 10:00 and I was listening to the local radio station just because that's what we had on there because you couldn't get Cliff at Night up there, because they lowered power. And the guy I was working with and I were talking and I told him that I had this interest in radio and he goes, You ever been to a radio station? I said, No. And he goes, Why don't you call them out there and see if we can go out there and check it out? It had never even occurred to me to do that, you know? And so I called the guy at the local radio station. I said, Hey, I'm really interested in radio. Would you mind if I came out and saw your little operation? He's like, No, come on. And so, my friend Jimmy, who I worked with, very salt of the earth man, was going to give me a ride home that night. So instead of going home, we went out to the radio station in his pickup, pulled up out where it still is today and went in there. And of course, I walked in and I was mesmerized. I was just like, Oh my God, this is how this works. I had no concept of it. And you know, they've got turntables, they've got cartridge machines where they play the commercials, the microphone, the console with all these knobs and over here behind the glasses at the transmitter that's sending it up to the tower. And I was sold. I mean, I knew at that moment, this is what I'm doing. And so I made friends with the DJ that was out there and he goes, well, how old are you? And I said, I'm 16. He goes, well, could get a license and get a job here because we're always looking for people, which back then there was no automation. You had to have a human being there at all times. And now, you know, the computer will run it indefinitely if you want it to. But in those days, had to have a warm body. And most small market radio stations were just looking for a warm body if you had the FCC license, which you had to have in those days, you don't now. And so I got the word on how do you get one of those? They gave me a study book, and I studied that thing backwards and forwards. Finally came to Dallas, skipped school one day, drove all the way to Dallas by myself, downtown at the Federal Building was where the FCC office was, went up there, took the test for the FCC license, passed it, went back out to the radio station and said, Hey, that license thing, I got it. He goes, You got it? I'm like, Yeah. He goes, Oh, well, man, let me put you in touch with so and so. And so that Saturday, I went in and the guy had me read some news copy or something like that. And he liked my voice. And he said, Well, can you start tomorrow? And that was my beginning in radio. I worked six to midnight on Saturday and Sunday nights. They finally put me on afternoonnights. And so my sophomore year in high school, I was working 4PM to midnight. We signed off at midnight. Eight hour shift, Monday through Friday and a shift on Saturday. And I would do my homework during records and I would roll the typewriter in from the front office and type my reports so I'd get a better grade. Because then in those days, you typed them, you'd get a better grade than if you wrote them. And so I would play long record and do my homework and get up and go back to school the next morning. Wow. And I did that throughout high school. I so wish I would have had the nerve to do that. I can't tell you how many times I would be downtown for some reason when I was a kid, and I would go by the KLIF studios. And I would just stand there across the street just looking at it. And I thought about going over there and knocking on the door, but I figured that they wouldn't let me in. And I didn't I I wasn't a real gumption driven kid, shall we say. So I never did that and man, now I so wish I had. You know, the funny thing is, is when I was younger, I was extremely introverted. Most people today find that hard to believe. But if you went back and talked to my teachers in elementary school, they would tell you the same thing and I have talked to them. And they all said the same thing. You just look like you were hiding all the time because I didn't want to speak. And some of the most interesting people in radio started out very introverted and radio brings it out of you. And it did me certainly, because I was one of those kids I never wanted to be called on. I never wanted to raise my hand. I never wanted to speak up. And then once I started doing this thing on radio, you know, it just gave me this incredible confidence. And I think more than anything else, it showed me that I could believe in myself. And if I had the passion to do something, it does, If I had the passion to do this, I could come up with the rest. Yeah, it does. It can bring something like that out of you. It does. I've heard that from a number of people and it's true for me too. It kinda got me out of my shell a little bit. What are you doing over there, Becca? Are we are we about to do mid show or something? I don't think. No. Okay. Alright. Alright. Yeah. That's why I have the whiteboard. Okay. Okay. I I thought carry on. I just thought you were is that the cue to shut up or what? No. No. No. It's it's it's no cue to shut up. No. He's sidetracked. Yeah. I was just a little bit distracted by that. Alright. Can we talk about Ron Sure. For a little bit? You know, because I love your stories of Ron. I never got to meet the guy. Really? You never met Ron? No. Never did. Never did. The funny thing is is I was thinking about Ron on the way over here. This is Ron Chapman we're talking about. Right, and I thought how long has it been since he's been gone? Three and a half years? Yeah, something like that. And I'm like at a red light, then I Googled it real quick and it's been five and a half years. I didn't realize that. Now the thing with Ron was, you know, like most kids growing up in Dallas Fort Worth, I heard him on Cliff as Charlie and Harrigan. I watched him on Channel eight on something else show. We watched that every afternoon. Oh yeah. And then when I got into high school, you know, Cliff was kind of starting to be in its declining years. And FM radio was taking over, you had K news, you had the zoo, you had Q one zero two, and you had this little station KVIL, which was nothing to start with. But I suddenly realized Ron Chapman is over there. And I'm like, is that the same guy? Yeah, it is. Ron Chapman's at this station that nobody listens to. And then I started listening to it and I'm like, oh my God, I love the way he does this. Now they played really, you know, kind of light rock music, which I wasn't really into as a high school kid. Know, I was still wanting my Led Zeppelin and Ted Nugent. But, you know, they were playing Helen Reddy and Barbara Streisand and Neil Diamond. But then they hired Mike Seldon from Cliff. And it brought him over there. Well, I was a huge Mike Seldon fan. And I thought, well, that's interesting. And I learned that the station is sold, new owners were putting a lot of money into it, which they did. They started promoting it, you'd see billboards, you'd see TV commercials for them, print ads. They were putting tons of money into it. They kind of reformed the format to where it wasn't such a sleepy, adult contemporary type station. It was almost top 40 without the heavy stuff. And it was very upbeat. And there was just something about that station that was different than any station I'd ever heard. And Ron was incredible in the morning. He was like, you know, a comedian. He was watching the Johnny Carson monologue between every record, you know. And so I just became a huge KVIL fan. And from the day I started in radio at 16, I thought to myself, that's where I want to go to work. I mean, I'm serious. Literally on the first day I was ever on the air, 12/03/1973, I wanted to go to work at KVIL. And I tried to emulate them. Even drove down there and walked in and Ron let me stand and watch. And I got to meet Ron, which was a blast and I was a huge fan already. And he was so nice to me. And I was like, I remember walking out and thinking, God, that guy's cool, man. And I thought, this is where I have got to find a way to get to. And here I am 16, 17 years old, and it's like, then you know, they started getting ratings and all of a sudden they're the biggest station in Dallas Fort Worth. Then they're like the biggest biller in America for one solid radio station. They were huge in the industry. And all this was Ron's design too, wasn't it? It was a lot of his doing. Had a guy named George Johns, who was the corporate PD for the company that owned them, who had a lot of refining tools that he would use that made the station sound great. But I would say at least 90% of it was Ron. Absolutely, without question. He was a genius in the field. He was a great morning personality. But what he did off the air was probably bigger than what he did as a contributor on the air. His masterful marketing of the station, promotions, and just his philosophy in general on how to do radio is what really attracted me. So here I am at the point of thinking, I had by then gone over to Sherman and was working at a little top 40 station, but I always had my eyes on KVIL. I had had an offer on the old Z97. I had talked to Knews, got no traction there. And then one day, I found out they had an opening at KVIL. And I was 20 years old. And I had the guts to just walk in one day and ask for a job. Just walk in and say, Here I am. Yes. And it was the most interesting thing as I look back on it now. And Ron in the subsequent years has told me his side of it, which was kind of interesting compared to my side of it. But I walked in on the day before 07/04/1978. It was a Monday. And so they had given the office staff that day off in addition to the Tuesday, which was going be the July 4. And when I walked in at 09:00 I expected him to be going off the air because he normally did. But because it was a holiday shift, they were working extended shifts and he was going to be on the air till ten that day. And so because of that, he was still on the air when I walked in. The front door was open and I walked in and there's nobody around except the guys back there in the newsroom and Ron on the studio. And I looked down the hall and I can see Ron. Where was it located then? Preston State Bank. Okay. Downtown Highland Park. Okay. It's now a posh restaurant. Yeah. Which I've been in, it's so weird to walk through there and go, wow, this is where KVIL was. But I walked in, one of the news guys, Andy McCollum walked through, I think just going to get a cup of coffee or something. He's like, can I help you? And I'm like, yeah, I'm here to see Ron. He goes, Oh, okay. So I see him go back down the hall to the studio, punch open the door and go, Ron, there's a guy here to see you. He turns around and looks and goes, Okay. Totally goes on with the show. I'm listening on the monitor and kind of watching Ron. I'm like, Well, this is cool. At least I get to watch Ron. So I know now he's going be on till ten. So I'm going be sitting here a while. But about 09:30, he comes out of the studio, comes over to where I'm sitting, he goes, What's your act? And I'm like, Well, I'm here with a tape. I wanted to apply for that part time position you have open. He goes, Well, you don't have an appointment, so you're going to have to wait on me. In just that demeanor. And most people would have probably thought, yeah, see you. But I was not intimidated by it. Know, I had met him before, but he was very nice. This time he wasn't that nice. I thought, Well, you know, I'm here. I'm not driving back to Gainesville and coming back. I said, I'll wait. And I think that kinda stunned in me. He goes, okay. So around goes back to the show and finishes finishes the show. Mhmm. And I'm thinking, okay, at 10:00, he'll come get me and we can chat. Well, 10:00 comes and he's not around. Now it's 11:00. I've been sitting here for now two hours. He finally looks down the hall, sees I'm still here, walks in, he goes, okay, so what can I do for you? I said, I've got a tape, resume, you know? He goes, How old are you? I said, I'm 20. He goes, You look 17, which I did. I was long hair, diminutive looking guy, just really kind of a short, scrawny looking kid. So he goes, I said, I've got my tape right. And he goes, A tape, of course. So he takes the tape, we go just around the corner and they have a studio in that building that they laughingly called the auditorium, which was actually a coat closet. They turned it into a studio because they didn't have a lot of studios and they needed another one. And this was where he would cut promos and stuff. It literally was a coat closet. Yeah. It was just a little small board, one microphone, one turntable and a reel to reel and a cart machine. And that's where he did all the promos. So puts it on the reel to reel machine, puts his head down and starts listening. And I'm just like, oh my God, you know, this is the moment. This is, this is it. You're either in or out right here. And he plays three breaks. I've probably got 20 on the tape. He played three breaks, hit stop rewind. And I thought, oh God, he really hated it. You know, he didn't even want to do the whole thing. And I just was speechless. I was standing right behind him and he's kind of hunched over on the machine, meticulously takes it out, puts it back in the box and closes the box. Turns me and says, I think we can do something with this. And I'm just my jaw is just dropping. I'm like, really? And he goes, yeah, this is very good. And he says, that's you on the tape, right? And he goes, I said, yeah. He goes, come with me. So we go down to his office Now what were you thinking? What that? Couldn't believe it. I was just like am I really hearing this? You know, is that really Ron Chapman saying that to him? It was just unbelievable. That must have been the greatest moment of your life up to that point. Maybe of my life. Maybe of my life. I mean, because I wanted that so bad. I had dreamt about it for years. It was my ultimate goal. You know, I could always tell that about you. Yeah. I mean, even when I didn't know you, when I listened to you on the air, I could just tell that KVIL was a fit for you. They knew it. You knew it. And that that was your place. That was you. Well, I appreciate that. The the funny thing is is I did feel that way. I did. But we went back to his office and a guy named Mickey Grant, who was his morning show producer, who office with Ron, which is hard to believe to begin with. But he had a desk over on the side, which was just a mound of papers because he was very disheveled and not very coordinated. But a great guy and Rod was very put together, right? Oh yeah. I mean his desk would be immaculate. So it was just this dichotomy. And he's over there in desk and Ron says to me, yeah, this is good, this is very good. And he looks over at Mickey and says, I don't tell that to a lot of people do you? And without looking up Mickey goes, nope. I don't know why I remember that but I do. So we worked out a deal come in Saturday and start on Sunday. And that was it. And he said, I'll be in touch. I'll call you and we'll work out the details. And what was really weird is the next I went home. I mean, I'm gonna go I remember going out to the Highland Park Village parking lot and just screaming out loud. I literally did. I didn't care who saw it or heard it or whatever. And it wasn't a very nice word that I said either. But I remember doing it because I was like oh my God, I pulled it off. I did it. I got a job at KDIL. And that's how I got hired there. I went home. I didn't tell anybody because you know you don't. No. Because something could happen to where it doesn't happen and then you look like a fool. Yeah. So I didn't tell anybody and You gotta wait until you at least start. You gotta be in the building. Yeah. And so I remember going home and then I would get a call the next day maybe, didn't. And at this time I'm working in Sherman, so I had to leave at like 10AM to go to work and work all day. And the second day I didn't get a call and now I'm like, well, was that real or what's going on here? And the third day I was gonna call back, you know? And at 08:15 in the morning, my phone rang and it was Ron. He's on the air. You know? And he's calling me and he goes, hey we've been trying to call you but you know in those days you didn't have answering machines. Right. And I was at work. So he goes, I said, yeah, well I've been at work. And he goes, well listen, I'll call you back at 09:00, be there. I'm like, okay. And then he hangs up and I was actually listening to him that morning and thirty seconds later he's on the air doing a break and I'm like, I can't believe Ron Chapman would take time out of his show to call me while he's on the air. But he did. At 09:00 he called back and we worked out the details of what I was going to do and that weekend I went down there and had my indoctrination and the next day I started on a Sunday, whatever date that was, 1978. But it was incredible and I remember by then I knew I had the job. So I told a friend in radio and he said, whatever you do, bring a jam box into the studio, put a cassette in there and record that show. Because even if they fire you after the first show, you've got at least that 10. And I did do that, you know, Because that was radio back then, you know? Yeah. That's how you did it. Now here's the here's the other side of Ron's side of that. And I didn't hear this until maybe ten years ago. But he'd said when you came in that day, I thought that tape was of somebody else and that you were just trying to get in with that tape and then just try to make it work out. He said I was convinced that was not you until I actually heard you on the air that Sunday. He thought I was trying to boondoggle. But of course it was me. It was me. Of course it was. That's how I got to KVIL. And it was an incredible run. I worked there for years, never imagined I'd leave, but I ultimately did and then came back and left again. But you knew when you were at KVIL in those days and they were huge, number one. And everybody in the country wanted to work And you were working there, this twenty one year old kid, know. Just, I look back on now and I still can't figure out how I did that. But I did. And, but I knew every time I would go on the air, you know, this is not only the big time, this is it. This is as good as it gets. And KVIL in those days was incredible. Just the way we crafted a break, the way we did certain things, stuff that radio stations did that would just drive Ron crazy, we never did. There were so many pieces to the puzzle of the art of how the radio station was programmed and executed. And he demanded perfection. No question about it. Was he a hard man to work for? Absolutely. Was he demanding? Was he very difficult at times? Absolutely. Some people could take it, some couldn't. Those did usually last for a long time. I think I worked there over ten years and that's a lot for what happened there. But the thing is you knew all the time you were at the very best there was. And I remember somebody once saying if he couldn't get the best out of you, he wasn't there. I truly believe that to be true. Life lessons in radio. The education I learned working for him and with him at that radio station was, you know, doctorate in broadcasting, greater than any degree you would get anywhere. Still serves me to this day. I'm sure it does. Alright. This is Steve Eckhart with us here this afternoon on your dark companion, and we'll have more with Steve here in just a second. If you need to chill out there for a second or just relax a little bit or, you know, act like you're playing a record and do things you did while the record were playing. You can do that because right now, I'm to the mid show read. Alright. Let's see what we have here first of all. Are you sitting home every Saturday and Sunday watching ball alone or maybe worries for inviting friends over to grill. Don't do that, man. Don't do that. Call your friends. Call your family and tell them to meet you at Dudley's. Let them do all that stuff for you. You go in there, you eat, drink, you watch ball. And I say, okay. Well, where at Dudley's do you watch ball? Do you like TV sets? They got about a jillion of them there. And there is a game going on no matter who it is, no matter where it is. If it's rolling, they can get it at Dudley's. Now they're also they're gonna make way better food units than you can. Plus, they have a bar. I mean, look. What's not to like here? Dudley's is your football headquarters at either location. 2927 North Henderson Avenue in Dallas. That is right just a little southeast of that labeled Knox Henderson Exit. As I mentioned that for the second time in in very faithfully so a couple days. Or they got one in Rockwall, 2975 Highway 66 up that way. Dudley's is a cool, comfortable place. I go there on. It's right around the corner from me. So, yes, when I wanna watch ball on different screens or watch two games at one time, whatever the case may be, Dudley plays for me. Make it a place for you too. Is that we got more? I got Jimmy Moss in there too. Oh, okay. Now we need to talk to you about Jimmy Moss. Fifth annual Moss golf tournaments. Fourth golf course. 7AM for breakfast. 8AM is shotgun shotgun start. The guest player will be the great Ed Balfour. Why own Ed Balfour, the four stars bully. He will be, what? Will be Dingy's part? What does that mean? Doing his part. I don't know. You guys been Oh, okay. Yes. That's alright. He will be doing Will be there too for a live show during the lunch part of the day. So come see us now this year, they're holding one tournament. The impact this year's tournament will benefit giving Moss and the Dallas amputee work participation makes a impact. Go play the annual Moss. To g I v I n e s gigmas dot org. Signed up Squareway. Go out and help work. Yes. That's it. Alright. We go sip here, and we'll get back to Steve. Because I think it's Ron Chapman's story. Was. We had the biggest promotions, contests, marketing. Ron would buy time on during the Academy Awards and do a live commercial on something he would do the next morning. You just don't see things like that anymore. Oh no. Just amazing things that came out of the man's mind. You just reminded me of one of my favorite promotional things that I was ever involved with. We would do these contests where we would mail out these tickets or whatever. And if we called your number, you know, you had three minutes or five minutes to call in and claim the prize, right? So one day I'm filling in during the midday and I think the price was like $10,000 which, you know, a lot of money back then. Oh yeah? Still a lot of money. And you don't see a lot of stations giving that kind No, you don't. But, so I call the number on the ticket, and if you have that number, you call And so I get a call, and it's a very elderly lady who says, well, I've got the number. It's da da da da. I'm like, okay. Tell me that one more time. Double check it. Yeah. She's got it. I'm like, who is this? And she tells me, know, Mary Smith or whatever. And I said, Mary Smith, you have just won 10,000. And you know, maybe I'll have way of doing the, giveaway. Once you said that, you laid out to get their response because that was what one wanted for the promo. Right? Them going, oh my god. I can't believe in a $10,000. This lady is still very calm and collected and she goes, oh, that is so nice. Thank you very much. And I'm thinking, my god. I'm like, $10,000. She goes, that's very nice. I thank you. And I'm like, man, what are you gonna do with $10,000? You know, trying to get some excitement out of this sure horse soul. And she says, well, I lost my husband a year ago, and it's always been my dream to be buried next to him, so I'll use this to get the cemetery plot next to which there is a long pause, and you hear me say, oh my. I truly was at a loss of words. How do you bounce back from that? Now here's the fun thing about that. At KVIL, no matter what shift you worked, I used to work for or you could be working following Ron in the morning or afternoon drive or nighttime, whatever. It was never really the ultimate goal, but it kind of was that you'd have a break that you did on the air that was so good, you'd leave it for Ron and if he liked it, he'd play it on his morning show, right? Well, played that break several times, made a promo out of it, in fact, with me going, Oh my. But that's not my favorite break I ever did on KVIL. And I actually still have this on tapes. I was working late at night, I think it was about 11:30 at night, and as we always did while the songs were playing, if the phones rang, and we didn't really solicit calls, we never said, Hey, the request lines are open, give us a call. We never said that. No, you didn't. The numbers were in the phone book if you wanted to call, people that were regulars that called had the number, but we never solicited calls for requests or things like that. So when the phone called, you'd always record the phone call because you might get gold. But I would tell you that 45 out of 50 calls were not gold. It would be, hey, will you play the Bee Gees? Yeah, I'll get to it. Or hey, did the Rangers win or what? But sometimes you can even work that into a break. KVIO, it's 11:17. Hey, did the Rangers win tonight? Yep, three to one over the Blue Jays. Okay, thanks. And that's your break. So you could use the phone and work it as a relatable. So we did that a lot. So on this particular phone call, I answer it KVIL. The guy goes, Hey, are you Steve, the guy that's on the radio? I'm like, Yes, I am. He goes, well, I'm here with my girlfriend and we're listening and she's getting really turned on by your voice. And I'm like, okay. And he goes, she thinks you have a really sexy voice. And I'm like, All right. And I said, So what do you want? Some pointers from me or something or what? He goes, No, I just want you to keep talking. That's my favorite one. And yes, I left that for Ron the next day and he did run it on the morning show. So I mean, that was kind of like the, if he ran your break on the morning show, you knew you did something really, really good. And you know, we had rules at KVIL that probably no other radio station knew then or now. And that was outside of the morning radio show of Ron's, the rest of the day, you could never talk over dead air. Meaning, you'd either be talking over an intro of a record, the part that begins before the lyric comes in. Yeah. Or you talked over the fade out of the song before going to commercials. We only played two commercials back to back ever, never more. Now we stopped eight times an hour, but you know, now they'll play fifteen minutes of commercials. I don't know how people get away with that because it just runs listeners off. It's horrible programming. But back then we would only play two because his philosophy was people would put up with one, they might put up with two, but you better be getting on to music then, which we did. But it was a very tightly formatted radio station. As I say, if you came out of a song and it had a soft cold, which was, that's a soft cold. A hard cold is, right? If you had either one of those, you weren't going be able to talk over the fade or the cold. So you would just say KVIL and hit the commercial. Or you might say KVIL it's $10.22, boom, hit the commercial. Then you could talk on the other side of the commercials over the intro of the next song. So that's how we would do that and keep everything we said over intros, keep the station moving forward, forward momentum, you never stop down. It never was boring because even if you didn't like what we were saying, your favorite song is playing up under it. But You guys did that better than anybody. Believe that to be nobody does it even to this day, to the extent that that station was so incredibly successful at doing it. And that's probably one of the big secrets that even the biggest consultants that would come to town and listen to us and try to figure out the magic of KVIL never figured out. But that was one of the really most important things we did was the forward momentum and keep it moving and talk only over the intros and always have something to say. Ron always had this rule that if you didn't have anything to say, roll a seg. In other words, just play two songs back to back and say nothing. Yeah. Because saying nothing was better than saying something stupid. Or, you know, KVIL is ten twenty two, here's Eric Clapton. Well, whoop de doo. What's that get you? Cool. You know, would never do a break like that. You know, we might say, you know, KVIL, it's 11:17, the Rangers are playing tonight, that game's at 07:05 instead of 07:35 if you're thinking of watching or going. Well, now we gave some valuable information there. It's relatable. And even if you weren't really into it, doesn't get in your way because you're playing the song too. But you know, everything we would do, we tried to be relatable and mostly to a female audience. But by the time that station was hugely successful, it garnered listeners across the board. And I still have a lot of times a woman or something that will come up to me older and say, Oh, I remember you from KVIO, which doesn't happen often, but every once in a while. Now back when I was on KVIO in the 70s and 80s and early 90s, you know, in the days of using credit cards and checks and things like that, I got to tell you, even me working eleven to two at night, you couldn't go anywhere and not be recognized by your name. And you know, I would put my car down there like, Oh, are you? Yep. When I was going to North Texas as a student during this time, I worked at night, went to school during the day. Inevitably, on the first day of class, they do roll call, right? And I'm sitting there and the year or two into this, I know what's coming. And they're, Joe Blow, Joe Blow, Joe Blow, Steve Eberhardt? And they would look up, find me. Are you the one? Yeah. They would every single time. And then of course, half of the class heads would turn looking at you like, Oh, that's that guy on the radio, you know, and it's like so uncomfortable. But you know, after a while you kind of dig it too though. Yeah, honestly. I mean, there's a part of us that are in this business because we like attention. Let's be honest. That's right. I mean, you can't be in this business and not dig attention. And I will freely admit that that I like it too. I liked it back in the day and I surprisingly, a good bit of it still comes my way now. Well, because you're you've been in the game locally recently so many more years. It's been thirty years since I've been on Dallas radio. So I don't get it much around here anymore. When I'm up around Gainesville, of course local people will, but it still is uncomfortable sometimes, you know, because I'll see somebody that clearly knows me, and they'll walk up and say hello, and I don't know who they are. And that just, that hurts because I know as soon as I say, you're gonna have to tell me who you are, that they're hurt by that because, oh, he doesn't remember me. That's a problem for me too. It is and people don't realize that but it really is and the best thing to do is, hey Mike, I'm Steve Eberhardt, remember me or whatever. That way, if you do remember them, you got the name to go with it. But even now that's one of those things that just makes me really uncomfortable, not to meet people, but to meet somebody that I should know but I don't. But that's part of it. But that's it is it's one of those things that you just like, dang, man, I should have remembered who that was. Yeah, yeah, KVIO was great. I loved it. I finally left, went over to K Love for a few years doing afternoons there. It's an oldie station. We put that thing on the map, had a lot of fun with that. Worked at Mix one hundred two point nine. Got to go to the White House during the time working on the morning show there and met President Clinton, was sitting in on a news conference and got to ask a question at a news conference in the White House with President Clinton. And yes, there were interns around. You know, that's the other thing, as you know, as well as I do. Then being part of KVIL as the music director when I went back there, just the opportunities that you had to meet people, celebrities, backstage, and things like that. Just incredible, incredible things. You know, in the recent death of Dolly Parton, I was reminiscing about remembering meeting her one time. And as much as she's known for big things in life, she's such a diminutive little person, you know, and I'm five'seven. And for me to say that is really saying something. But she was such a beautiful person, such a great person and so delightful is the word that I would use. But so many others that I've met, I guess the one that really, my kids love the most is, I went to the Grammys in 1992. I got to go backstage after it was over. There's Barbara Streisand, there's Kenny Loggins, there's all the Columbia people there, and Mariah Carey, who they had brought to town when she first started and was not a celebrity at all. And I remember we went to this little bar down at the old West End and they would have showcases there for all the local radio guys, right? And there might be 20 or 30 guys there and she got up and sang and you know, I think she did Love Takes Time, her first hit and we were just all like, wow. And you know, she hadn't even put anything out yet. We were just like, you know, sometimes you'd see me go, yeah, we'll see what happens here. So you got to see Mariah Carey before she ever even blew Yeah. And we were all blown away. Well, that was repeated several times. I got to meet her several times and we would add her songs out of the box as they say, which is right from the beginning of the release. And when those days when KVIL would add a record to their playlist, there would be a ripple effect across the industry for stations like KVIL that played that kind of music. Because a station in Boston or Los Angeles or even New York or Florida or Chicago would see that KVIL added that record, so they'd add the record. So the record companies were very keen on keeping us pleased and happy. I never accepted money, honestly. Sometimes they would fly you to New York or Los Angeles for a showcase. That was acceptable, but got to meet a lot of people. Now the Mariah Carey story is I'm backstage at the Grammys in 1992. And everything is winding down and she asked me to go out and have a drink with her. True story. And I turned her down because I was engaged at the time to the woman I'm still married to. But yes, I was asked out by Mariah Carey and turned her down. My kids love the story. And it's actually true. Now I would for years still get Christmas cards from her, which I still have, signed by her. And I don't know if she would remember me today, but maybe. I know I haven't forgot her, but she's had quite a career in life since that. But I do always wonder what would have happened if I had gone out with her that night. But I'm good, I've got a great life, don't get me wrong. You've done all right. I've done quite well, in fact, thank you very much. I'd just be another Nick Cannon in that life. Right? But yeah, that was one of them that I enjoyed. Got to meet so many people through the years though. Here's another funny story. You'll appreciate this, Mike. Typical backstage at concerts, you know, they've got one of these guys that'll do the eight by 10 glossies for you, right? The pictures that they'll take, the meet and greet. And so James Bland used to be the photographer that always took those. Do you know James? I don't think so. Great photographer here in Dallas. And he was the guy that would do those photographs. Then a week or two later, you would get a black and white or color eight by 10 of you and whatever celebrity it was. And I remember I'm dating another girl at the time, long before I met my wife, And we're doing the obligatory stand up for the meet and greet photo. And it's Billy Joel. And so typically what I would do is I would let the girl stand next to him and I would stand next to her and they would take the picture, the three shot. And I started realizing that I probably wasn't going to remain with this person for much longer. So I started negotiating to where I would put the girl on the other side and me on this side so that then later I could cut her out of the picture. I would do that. Nobody ever noticed it. That's clever. One time we had that scene with Sting, right? Yep. Meet and Greet. Years later, I see him at another radio station later and I'm telling him this story and he just got the biggest kick out of it. You know that we were maneuvering where we were in the meet and greet photo so that I could cut him out later, right? And so he said, I'm going be watching from that from now on. When the guy sends his girl to the other side, I know they're not staying together. But met so many people. There's times when I'll be watching a TV show or something, I'll go, yeah, I met them. And I forgot that I did. I've got a photo album full of pictures. Now with your phone, you would have a picture of every single person you ever met. We didn't take pictures all the time back then, but I do still have quite a few of a lot of really cool people. There were people that were so genuinely nice celebrities that I've met through the years, some that weren't. One of my favorite of that was when I was at K Love, we used to do these big oldies reunion type shows. And this particular one was at Tarrant County Convention Center, which I think they're about to tear down or something. I think they are. But we were backstage. And the headliner of the night was the one and only Chuck Berry. And you've heard the stories how he walks in, demands his money in cash. And I was standing there when he walked in from a cab, no car, no limo, gets out of a cab, walks in through the back door to the backstage, has his guitar in a case and the guy hands him a briefcase, he opens it up, it's full of cash. I'm like, holy cow, that's not just a story, that's real. I just saw it. Goes and sits on the side of the stage, right? With his guitar next to him and his briefcase on the other side. And he's supposed to go on at 11PM. Well, they've got like Martha and the Vandellas, the Ronnettes and all these old rock and roll groups, know. But he's all by himself and doesn't even have any peeps. No major, no no. He's all alone. And so all these other groups are doing four or five songs and getting off. Well, it's almost 11:00 and there's like two or three still to go and the house is packed. And it's a fun time and we're trying to do interviews backstage with the different ones. And so I'm like, hey Chuck, can we do an interview with you? No. Can we get a photo? No. And I'm like, Oh, boy. Anyway, because I thought, you know, if anybody I wanted to interview that night would have been him. Yeah, but he had no interest. So then it started get close to 11:00. He calls the manager guy or whatever over and he goes, I go on at eleven. He goes, well, Chuck, we're running a little bit late. It might be about 11:15, 11:20 before you get someone. He goes, nope, I go on at eleven or I walk out that door. I'm standing there watching this going, Holy cow. And so the guy gives Martha Reeves of Martha and the Vandelas to get off stage, get off stage. And so she's like, what? And ends the song comes over and she goes, what's the deal? And he goes, Chuck's got to go on right now. And she's livid. Couldn't even bear to tell you what she was saying. That wasn't pleasant. But Chuck gets up, walks out there, hasn't rehearsed with the band that's backing everybody up, pulls out his guitar, Johnny B Good rocks the house. Now I couldn't tell you anything but just absolutely incredible to stand there on the side of the stage and watch him perform. Incredible, rock the house and does, right? Which is all he's going do. Walks off the stage, grabs his stuff, walks to that same door, the cab is still out there waiting on it, gets in it and go. Didn't say anything to anybody. But he was not a happy person. He was quite rude in fact. But then the other artists have to go on after him and they're all mad because they're like, we can't go on after Chuck Berry, he just killed. You know, it was crazy. But Chuck Berry, he was an on return gun. I've heard that about him. Yeah. Well, it's true. I witnessed it. This not the first time I've heard that story. So where do you think radio's going? I figured you would ask me that question. And I did think about it a little bit the other way. Well, you're exactly the kind of guy I would want to ask that question of. It's not going in a good direction. It's not. And there's a lot of reasons. Number one, people have phones. News radio is in horrible shape right now because the second the plane crashes in Florida, you got a message on your notification on your phone, might even have video already, which I did. So are you going to go turn on the radio now to get the latest news? You already got it. Are you gonna even turn on TV? You already got it. I mean, you might get a few more details, but not a whole lot. We used to talk about being up to date on football scores, baseball scores, basketball scores. You're gonna get a notification of that every time they score now. So I don't know how important that is. There's thousands of outlets now, they can listen to Spotify, they can play exactly what they want to hear. Spotify will follow their trends and suggest songs that they will like better than we ever could on radio. Not to say that radio isn't dead. 85% of people in cars still listen to radio, which is crazy. It's not 100% like it was one time, but it is 85%, which don't let people tell you radio is dead. It's not. The problem with big time radio now in major markets is there's nobody coming up that knows how to do it the way we did. And I know that sounds like an old guy saying it. Well, am an old guy and I am saying it. There's nobody coming up that know how to do it like we did, that was inviting, was informative, that was relatable, that was friendly, that was companionship, which is what's really missing now, I think. That's why talk radio is really one of the only forces that still exists successfully because it's companionship, and you get to know the person, and you feel like you are in the car with them. Music radio stations now have cut the budgets to a degree to where if you're listening to a radio station in Dallas Fort Worth today, it's possibly not even being broadcast from Dallas Fort Worth. It could be being created by somebody in New York or Chicago or wherever. And before much longer, I got to tell you, AI is going to be producing voices on the radio. There is some of that already. And it's astonishing how real it sounds. And that will be the future of it. Will it have a personality? Can it make you laugh? Can it make you cry? Can it make you think? Not like a human being. There's nothing that will ever replace that. I think of times when something of great imports happens, whether it be in news and a plane crashes. When they had that helicopter crash in California last night, the NBC News helicopter, and you see just how heartbroken those people are that were there. An AI thing can't do that for you. Somebody from Chicago who's never been here probably can't empathize with something that happens here. Which I think that's the big difference. Is radio in trouble? Yes. Is it the same as it was? No, and it will never ever be that way. And the more I talk to people, the more I realize that the only real place where radio done kind of like it used to be, is in places where my station are in small markets, where we still are part of the community, we go out to the community, I'll be out at a festival on Saturday broadcasting, meeting people, and it's always great to see the listeners come up and, and they know me, I know them, we talk about things that go on right there. You know, they know that if something happens, they had a police chase with a fatality just a couple of days ago, up in Cook County. Well, I went on the air and did a breaking news story about that. So they know they can come to us. We get it on our Facebook, you know, and they know that if something's going on, they can come to us and get the information. Because you know, they're not going to get it anywhere else. We have a thing that we say, giving you what you can't get anywhere else. And it's a cute little line, but it's true too. So if major market radio could ever see the light and understanding that it's the connection and the companionship with listeners that is the most important thing, Maybe they can make it happen again. But I don't see it happening because the people that are running the radio stations today don't know how it was done. They're coming from a whole another place. And it's usually a dollar sign. Yeah. Alright, he has been Steve Eberhardt. Thank you very much for doing this. Did we learn anything today, class? I don't know if we learned anything, we had a lot of fun, I hope hope It's been enjoyable. I always enjoy talking to you, Mike. Always enjoy hanging with you too, Steve. Thank you. You are great. Thank you. As I said at the beginning, we are in the midst of the Mutual Admiration Society right here. That's it. Alright, That is it for our little YDC for today. We thank you very much for being by the channel live. If you are, if you haven't been, what, you know where to get us. Just get us wherever you get your podcasts. That can be Spotify. That could be YouTube. Just wherever it is out there that you go for them, go there. You will find little YDC skulking around somewhere. Thank you, Becca. Thank you, Ashley. And thank you all for being by the channel today. Till next time. Bye. Nobody would have thought that I would be the one. Ryder, sports talk. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. With the big mic. Oh, okay. Alright. Yeah. Okay. Now I get it. We got a lightning strike, boys. We don't.