Cowboys Draft Deep Dive: Caleb Downs, and George Pickens’ Future | David Moore | Just Wondering

Today's just wondering, we'll be very draft intensive.
I'll take you through my evaluations of the Cowboys draft and take a quick look at in
my estimation the best and worst drafts.
And then we'll talk with longtime Cowboy Beat reporter David Moore to review his feelings
on the draft, the future of George Pickens, and what lies ahead for new defensive coordinator
Christian Parker.
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Evaluating drafts can be a precarious task.
Teams may take a player who seems odd to the rest of us, but who the team feels will be
a really good fit for their scheme.
That's especially true of the Cowboys this year.
Their new defensive coordinator, Christian Parker, has a picture in his mind of what his
new 3-4 defense will look like in Dallas.
The type of players who fit his scheme are the types he wants to draft.
And at this point, none of us, the media, the draft experts, we don't know what that
picture in Christian Parker's mind looks like exactly.
The first round pick Caleb Downs is a safety.
But he'll likely spend most of his first year here playing Nickelback.
And then the second first round pick Malachai Lawrence who is an outside edge rusher in Dallas
will be an outside linebacker in a 3-4.
Now, will he rush most of the time?
Yeah.
Can he cover out of the backfield?
I don't know.
And the third round pick, Jason Baram.
He played mostly edge rusher at Michigan, but Parker envisions him as an inside linebacker.
Overall I like the Dallas draft.
Downs is fantastic.
Lawrence is truly a freakish athlete.
But given that, I wonder why his college production wasn't higher when he was better
athletically than almost any tackle he faced ever.
My day three favorite was Penn State, the offensive tackle drew Shelton.
Apparently, the team shares my concern over the progress or lack of it of 24 first round
draft choice offensive tackle Tyler Gytin.
But to make over of this defense is remarkable, and it should be, last season's defense
was hideous or worse.
There will be five new starters in game one, Downs and free agent Jalen Thompson at the
safeties, free agent cornered Durant, edge rusher Gary and the linebacker winners who were
required in trades.
And at some point, those draftees Lawrence and Baram will be expected to be starters.
Dallas had one of the top classes in the draft, and for what it's worth, here are my other
favorite draft classes.
What's extraordinary is the presence of the Jets, Giants and Browns, who've recently
not been famous for their picking ability.
No one else has Miami ranked this highly, but as the selections unfolded, the Dolphins
Jets kept choosing in my estimation one solid player after another.
And KC traded up for star quarter amounts to Elaine, who they desperately needed, and
then added some good players in the later rounds.
As far as the worst drafts, I don't believe in punishing teams who had only a few picks
like the Rams and Seahawks.
Besides, like LA, they swapped the number one draft choice for star cornerback Trent McDuffy,
whom they badly needed.
So here's my list of unimpressive work from the weekend.
Jacksonville had lots of picks, but didn't add lots of talent.
Minnesota and Denver appeared to reach to fill needs with their top selections.
And after watching Houston's top four picks, I thought they were simply choosing heavy
eyes, and I for one didn't understand what Indy was doing.
But those are just the opinions of me.
Let's get the insights of longtime cowboy beat reporter David Moore next.
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Dallas Fort Worth readers have had the pleasure of experiencing the reporting and the writing
of David Moore for decades now.
He's been covering sports.
Is this the fifth decade?
It would be the fifth decade, yes.
Not quite up to you, but I'm trying to hang in there.
Hey, I'm just older new.
That's all we're talking about here.
David covered the Dallas Cowboys forever for the morning news.
Still writes about them for demagazine.
He recently retired from the morning news, but most recently, we shared a room at the
star for the NFL draft.
David, thanks for your time.
Thanks for being with us.
Oh, always enjoy being with you, Norm.
Let's go to your grade on the draft, and I'm going to make a little different question.
We know Caleb Downs is a star.
If he can't play, this thing was terrible.
But take me for the draft after Downs and what you thought of it.
Well, I think, and I will say, a lot of this is judged on people we've come to trust
through the years and their talent evaluation.
And I think one thing that is important to remember on this is when the sources we go
to that we trust, who have shown that they're good talent evaluators, they're still not,
they're doing a general assessment, right, of what the player is.
They're not doing them based on, this is our system.
This is who we have here.
I can see this guy fitting into my system there.
So often, I think a lot of times, that's where you get into the, well, this team reached
on this or reached on that.
But also, I would say they're just definitive talent evaluators on overall physical ability
and comprehensive and real time ability to assess information on the field that gives
the general one.
And by that one, that's a long wind up to get into Malachi, Lawrence.
He went higher than I think, just about anyone projected.
They liked him.
They, a lot of the evaluators like his talent upside.
They feel he has a higher ceiling, maybe than some players they had rated ahead of him.
But when you have a ceiling, that means you haven't reached that potential yet, right?
And there's no assurance that you will.
So they saw some traits in Malachi, Lawrence, that really intrigued them.
In fact, after the draft, they compared him to DeMarcus Lawrence in some ways, as far
as his relentless playing style and his burst from their lips, from their lips to God's
ear, right there.
Exactly.
And here's the thing, and I found that interesting because where was DeMarcus Lawrence taking
in the top of the second round, he was actually taken later that Malachi Lawrence was taken
at 23, again, and in exact science here, but they saw some traits there.
They project him.
I would say for this draft to really, if Caleb Downs is a given, which I think, just
about any evaluator will tell you he is.
In fact, he may be, in a lot of ways, arguably the most potentially, the most impactful player
in this draft on the defensive side of the ball, potentially.
When you take him out of it, I think this draft, whether or not it's going to really
hit for Dallas, will be determined by how Malachi Lawrence, who was their second pick in the
first round.
And Josh on Barham, who was their third, who was their pick in the third round, will
do.
Barham was projected in that range, but the issue on him was a lot of people viewed him
as an edge.
Dallas made it very clear.
He's going to start it inside linebacker for us and go from there.
He has the match capabilities.
They used to name Zach Bond on him, Philadelphia, who, once he actually got in the spot, that
he should have played with the Eagles, he really took off.
So I think the level of production and how quickly one or both of those guys are able
to make their impact on this defense, will by and large determine whether or not this
was a successful draft for the Cowboys.
Were there simply too many holes on this club to fill in one draft?
They couldn't have filled all the holes I had on this.
And you know, this isn't, I mean, look, we've seen this Dallas defensive reclamation project
not that long ago, right?
Go back to 2021 where they were coming off another historically bad season defensively.
And in that year and Dan Quinn's first year, eight of their 11 draft picks were defense.
And their first six in a row that year.
At this stage, five of the eight players, they signed and free agency were defensive players.
So that came to, and we're talking at this stage, they continue to supplement that later,
as this Dallas team will.
But at this point in 2021, when they underwent that reclamation project, they added
13 new defensive players to the list to start their, their, you know, extreme makeover.
This year, five of the seven players in the draft were on defense.
Seven of the nine players they've signed to free agency in this point were on defense.
And they traded for two defensive players in Rashon, Gary and D winners.
That's 14 players.
So right now at this stage where we stand, they've added one more player defensively
than they did in 2021.
But I go back to that year and the results were dramatic.
They went from one of the worst defenses in league to a top 10 defense.
But that was fueled by Micah Parsons Caleb Downs would have to have a similar impact
in my mind for them to make a comparable jump in one year.
And just because they were able to do it with Quinn, Danminga are going to be able to do it
to that extent this time around.
What's the biggest toll left on this team?
That they're just so, there's so many unproven areas.
I mean, I think they're hoping and believe that they may have filled some of those holes
with this draft.
You could still upgrade defensively.
You could still upgrade it linebacker, in my opinion.
You have unproven edge rushers.
You don't have a lot of, you don't have a lot of juice on the outside where you say,
you know, look, I think Rashon Gary is a very good player.
Probably one who is not, doesn't have the adequate appreciation among fans
because his performance hadn't reached what he was paid.
But that was Green Bay's decision to pay him that money.
I think he was always been the type of player he is now.
And he's a very solid above average player.
But look, you gave up an elite pass rusher in my comparisons
and you haven't come close to duplicating that.
Certainly not individually or by committee at this point in my mind.
Was there a player Dallas just missed on in this draft?
Maybe not, eh?
Maybe not, but, you know, I get, and it was a fourth round pick.
So you have to, you have to keep it in the, in the perspective and the parameters.
I mean, I kind of got the sense of LT Overton, who was it started at A&M
and then went to Alabama.
They basically labeled him as, you know, we needed a body to replace.
When we traded Oso Diggy Zua, we needed that type of body
and that type of individual on the depth chart to kind of fill in
and do some of those things.
And I just find when you're at that stage and you're going,
and look, you know, they said that they implied at the time,
well, Oso didn't really fit this defense.
I don't buy that.
Oso didn't fit the defense because of a salary
not because of his talent, ability, ability of play football
or our football character and smarts.
But he's, I thought he was a very, very good player.
You know, in that regard,
Barum better be a good player because they gave
all Oso Diggy Zua to get the draft choice that they used to take Barum.
Exactly. Basically, what they did was they just,
they had two, after years of never investing money in the interior,
the defensive line, suddenly they had three big contracts
in the interior of the defensive line.
Now they're going to get another defensive front approach
with Christian Parker had an overload there.
So they basically, they basically said,
we can't continue to assign this much money to one position.
We have to move it and what we pick up
in financial flexibility in the move
we're going to pour into the linebacker position.
And I still don't think they're finished at linebacker.
And I don't think, I don't think they feel they are either.
Barham can, if he can be the type of,
if he can be even a Zack Ballon starter kit
in his first year, I think they would feel pretty good about that.
But that position was so,
so underwhelming for them last year
and so at the bottom of the scale
that that's where they have to improve in the front service.
David, I have a favorite underrated pick in this draft.
What's yours?
For the Cowboys?
Devin Moore is an interesting guy to me
because he has the size that they don't have back there.
But really, I think Drew Shelton can really give them
some flexibility going forward.
You know, David, that's my favorite player
because suddenly Tyler Gaiton,
who has not yet proven to be a really solid left tackle
after two years, it gives him some real competition
for that spot.
It does.
And I think there are a lot of, you know,
he, he, Drew trained here locally
with Duke Maniweather.
And I think he, I think he's gone up from like 295 pounds
to 305.
So he has redefined his body a little bit
in a quick period of time.
He's a guy from my understanding
was head-retrouble retaining good weight.
You know, a lot of all things of Lyman can retain weight
but they don't retain good weight in the muscle.
And it seems like he's kind of making that transition
to doing that.
I don't know that he will be,
I don't think he's a guy who will necessarily challenge
Gaiton from day one.
But I think the belief is this guy can, can be there
and do it pretty quickly.
And if Gaiton doesn't show the improvement
that he should show in year three,
then they have a guy they can fall back on.
And, and we'll, I think we'll find out in the next,
you know, a few weeks how this plays out.
My belief is by getting him,
they were also able to go to Tyler Smith
and say, okay, look,
you concentrate on being one of the most dominant
young guards in the game.
Keep going on your career path.
Don't worry about left tackle this year.
We're gonna keep you where you are.
I wouldn't be, look, I think they're gonna wanna see Shelton
a little bit and make sure it's not an over,
but I think if they see enough from Shelton,
I think you will hear very soon that,
oh, you know, Tyler, stay where you are.
Let's just keep this.
We believe in Gaiton, so let's go from there.
Whether it's a believe in Gaiton
or, hey, Shelton's good enough,
or he can, we're good there.
I think that's as much it as anything.
The Cowboys hired Christian Parker
to be their defensive coordinator on January 22nd.
He, he, he's had a little over three months to settle in,
meet all the old players from the defense,
explain to the scouts what he wanted in his draft,
train his own staff in what he wanted,
teach the returning players about the new systems,
then go through the draft.
It's the first time he'll ever call defensive plays.
Are we expecting too much from Christian Parker?
I mean, it's hard to say he's Superman.
Oh, there's, there's a lot of excitement there
from the fan base.
The excitement is strictly, look,
and I think there are a lot of strong attributes
about Christian Parker.
This is in no way a criticism of him.
You talk to people around the league who have, you know,
have a long resume and have been in this league for a while.
They're very impressed by this guy and what he can do
and his ability to communicate.
All of that is possible, positive.
This is what I'm about to say, no way
impunes him or undercuts any of that.
But there are a lot of outstanding defensive coordinators
in this league who have been doing what they've been doing
for 10, 15, 20 years.
As you said, he's been very impressive in three months.
Three months is not called a defense yet.
And we talked about this, you know,
I think while we were doing the draft,
everyone's going, oh, well, he's going to run this defensive.
How do we know what defense he's going to run?
We know what defensive principles he's grounded in,
what schemes he's comfortable with.
But just like, let's say if he's the next Ben Johnson
of defensive coordinators,
Ben Johnson still took from other schemes
and then made it his own, right?
And has a different strain, just like McKay,
the McVay did before him, you know,
if Christian Parker is really an innovator
and where defense is going potentially
is a lot of people seem to think he's at the forefront of,
we're going to see something a little bit different
than we've seen before.
I think it'll be very similar to Vic Fangio
and come off of that tree,
but just like the West Coast defense evolved
and all of this, I mean, I think you're going to see
an evolution of the Fangio system with him.
So we don't know exactly what it is
or how he's going to approach it yet,
but the early signs are encouraging.
All that being said, a first-time coordinator
who has never called defensive plays before, yes,
I think that's a lot to ask of somebody that this is,
you know, Dan Quinn made this thing over pretty quick,
but he'd been a defensive coordinator
on a Super Bowl winning team and a head coach in the lead.
This is Christian Parker's first time in this position.
More with David Moore in just a minute.
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David, one of the most polarizing players in the Cowboys' roster.
It's George Pickens.
He had his problems in Pittsburgh,
the Cowboys traded for him.
He did right here last year and then he was a free agent
and the Cowboys franchise tagged him.
Loads of players don't like to be franchise tagged.
If he were free, he'd make a giant amount of money.
Does George Pickens have a future here
or will he simply price him out of that?
I think is, you know, really what happened was in my mind,
you kind of exchanged when Dallas moved on
from Micah Parsons in part because they found it difficult
to maintain the integrity of the depth their team
by having so many high-souried contracts at the top.
Pickens came in and performed at a level
that pushed him in the exact same spot
they found themselves with Parsons last year.
And you can avoid it this year because, again,
he was a third-round pick.
So what he was making is a third-round pick
jumping to the franchise tag is a significant jump.
But all of these players' careers are so short,
they want the long-term security.
I think that CD-LAM and George Pickens are an ideal pairing
because I think they're games complement each other
and they get along and they have the ability
when one guy is off, the other guy picks it up
and they can kind of go back and forth.
It really is kind of a 1A and a 1B
rather than a defined one and then a secondary receiver.
And I think temperamentally, that's good for both of them.
Financially going forward, I just don't know
that you can pay both of them at the level
that is going to require to keep George Pickens
and still keep a semblance of a deep, well-balanced team together.
Players generally do not like the franchise tag.
They'd like to be free and get a big contract.
George Pickens in this marketplace
may have gone for four years and 140 million
and 100 guaranteed.
Well, I think that's a very realistic idea
of what he would have gotten, yeah.
So players often, they don't like the franchise tag
and they'll revolt as much as they can from it.
They'll skip the off-season workouts.
They'll be late to training camp if they arrive at all.
But very quickly, a two weeks ago,
Pickens agreed to sign the salary cap
and all those concerns disappeared.
But that came, as I recall a day or two after,
Jerry and Stephen met with his agent, David Malageta,
and they said they had a wonderful conversation.
Might that conversation have been?
Tell George to sign the franchise tag
and we will not franchise tag him again next year.
Oh, I think, yeah, I don't think you would have heard
of willingness to do that
unless there were some assurance down the line.
And so, you know, this will only,
we're not gonna tie him down in perpetuity
and then let him go and decreases market value.
That's a very, my belief is, yeah, Stephen and Jerry went,
that's a fair and reasonable thing.
We won't do it again.
And because you've seen this franchise do it again
a couple of times, they did it with that press cut,
they did it with Anthony Spencer, the linebacker,
and then when Spencer was up on the second one,
he was basically, he didn't have the flexibility
to get the long-term deal.
So, yeah, I think that's very real.
I think they also let, I think it's also like,
well, look, you understand where we are,
cap wise here and signing George Pickens
after one good season,
to more money than CD Lamb, who's right next to him,
who had more good seasons and George Pickens' ad for us,
you see the buying that puts us in,
but we'll franchise him, let's play this out.
You get another year with that press cut,
you put two years together,
and then we will sign you to a deal and trade you
or you'll be on the open market.
And I think that would be enough,
because again, he is getting close to $28 million
this year on the franchise tag,
which I will point out as all season workouts,
voluntary, all season workouts begin today
and players arrive at the star.
Just as the time we were filming this,
George Pickens had not signed that franchise tag yet
and had not shown up for the voluntary workouts today.
Finally, I know cowboy fans are chast about the draft being,
the draft, and why shouldn't they be adding
Caleb Downs and several other players?
But David, we should point out,
every team in the National Football League
got better through the draft.
Yes, and I think there is a,
cause we all tend to like reduce and put things into boxes
cause we're all juggling so much information and everything.
And I think everyone left last year
and understandably so with the idea,
all fence good, defense bad, fixed defense,
fixed defense, Dallas will be fine.
But go back and look offensively
what that offense didn't do in the second half of games.
You know, I think everyone's just kind of taking the attitude,
throw numbers at defense, get defense,
but just bring defense up to middle of the league
a little bit better with that offense will be great.
Well, defensive coordinators have had a year to study
what Dallas did offensively last year that worked.
By and large, they're coming back
with the same offensive talent and nucleus.
Some of those schemes aren't going to work.
Now they can do things differently and they will,
but I'm just saying there's no assurance
they will be as explosive and efficient offensively
as they were last year.
And I will still say this,
even though they were a very, very good offense,
look how many times in the second half of games
they were shut out.
And that is not what a good offense does.
Yep, David, we really appreciate your time.
And I'll tell you what,
let's meet next year to star again for another draft.
We can do that three days or so.
Sounds good to me.
See you buddy.
See you, thanks so much, Norm.
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Thanks for listening to today's episode of Just Wondering.
I'm Norm Hitzkes and know that every day,
I'll be just wondering about something.
And I'm Mary Hitzkes and I'll just be wondering too.
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