Jerry’s Standpat Gamble, Nine Losses as a Favorite & Ghost of Jimmy Johnson | Three Wide at Scout

Hello, everybody, and welcome again to Three Wide at Scout. My name is Norm Hitzges, and Scout is the most incredible sports bar. It's in the the iconic Statler Hotel in Downtown Dallas, 1914 Commerce Street.

We are here every Tuesday to talk football with you for an hour and a half. Drop by, drink specials, terrific food. I recommend the chicken fingers.

Onion rings are great also. We we come here to talk football every Tuesday at Scout. And do we have a crew today?

I I guess because I'm in the middle seat, it's gonna be up to me to try to urge answers out of Mac Engel from the Fort Worth Star Telegram and the always quiet Grego. Greg Williams. Lance?

How's it going on? It's it's gonna go on and you are gonna love this show because I think we have some opinions in the group. Oh, yeah.

I'm just guessing. Multiple, not singular. Multiple is correct.

Okay. Where do you wanna begin? I I know where I wanna begin.

Shoot. We'll get to the cowboy game in just a minute. Do we have to?

Well, what the last minute and thirty seven seconds was enjoyable. Anyway, it was trade deadline day today. The latest I have is these four deals.

San Francisco, which needed a wide receiver, picked up Keenan Allen from Indianapolis for a sixth round pick. Keenan Allen is long at the tooth, but he's a perfect pickup in this situation. He knows the league.

He's been around. He's happy to be a number two or number three wide receiver, and you will see him Sunday against the college. Well, he's gonna make a big difference immediately because they don't have Mike Evans.

Right. And without Mike, Mike Evans makes Brock Purdy look pretty. Write that one down.

That's magic. Keenan Allen, if he's okay, can do things. Hey.

If, you know, five years ago, this is a different guy, but that's a pretty significant pickup for them. He's one of those guys that's very tricky. Yep.

I mean, he's 10 in the league. He knows how to get open underneath. He he knows where the spots are.

He's it's he's a Kyle Shanahan guy. For sure. This is perfect.

Yep. For them. So Which which makes me wonder why allow it to happen?

But but see, Indianapolis is tearing down. Yep. They'd already traded some people before this week.

Yep. They did not trade quarterback Daniel Jones because Minnesota got another quarterback. We'll get to that in a minute.

They didn't trade running back Jonathan Taylor, which surprised everybody. I don't... I can't believe that.

But they get a six for Keenan Allen. And then they get from Kansas City, a four and a five for Josh Downs and a seventh round pick. Josh Downs is a good wide receiver on a team whose quarterback is mediocre?

Yeah. Pretty average quarterback in Kansas City. Right?

Pretty overrated ball. Yeah. He won't...

He isn't stepping up in class from Daniel Jones to Patrick Mahomes. He's again, I mean, he he he came cheap to a good team that needed him. On the other hand, let's look at Indy.

Keenan Allen's on a one year contract. Josh Downs had asked out, and they wind up getting a four, five, and a six. What's your leverage?

At that point, what's your leverage? Everybody knows that you're dumping everything. That's why I still don't understand why they didn't trade Jonathan Taylor even if it was a second or whatever.

Like, you're done for the next three years. I think there's... They were chasing that number one.

So did I. That they gave up the two for Sauce Gardner. Oh, such a down trade.

So they are chasing that number one, and I think they just held on too long. I think you're right. I think the Giants want...

I think the Giants wanted him. Mhmm. And as much as people like Cam Scatabrew, Jonathan Taylor's better, and they didn't wanna give up first.

And if you look at where the Giants are today and what they've done Oh. I don't think you can really be too mad in their front office with the decisions they've made in the last season getting rid of certain... Certainly, Dexter Lawrence, that's a big guy to get rid of.

But given where they are, I'd feel pretty good about it, given the fact Jackson Dart is out and you're still in first place. I'd feel pretty good about it. I have a question.

If either of you guys remember this, what did Minnesota give up for Kyler Murray? Oh, I don't remember. You're asking.

Let me look that up. Well, to... Today, Minnesota went and got another quarterback.

They got Kirk Cousins from Vegas, and they gave up a third round draft choice to get him. So they gave away JJ McCarthy for a five, and he's looking solid in New York under coach Harbaugh there. They gave up a three to get Kurt Cousins.

We were talking about this. Does Kurt Cousins earn more money than anybody in the NFL? A book needs just a pretty good player?

A book needs to be written on his career. Oh, how about Andy Dalton? What about what about Chase Daniel?

The greatest job in the world is being a backup quarterback in the NFL. There's only, like... But there's, like, 10 of them.

Like, the the 10 that have security, the other ones don't have security. But cousins kept squeezing 40 and $50,000,000 contracts out of people. I know.

You know, it was amazing. It's just... Anyway, he's now ostensibly the Minnesota starting quarterback, which makes Carson Wentz number two and makes Kyler Murray what when he comes back from injury.

I would imagine he's probably done there. I I don't think he's gonna be back, but Tyler Murray, you know, talk about the Vikings. I was thinking about this last night.

If you guys went through the absolute torture of watching that Vikings offense against the Bills. Do you remember? There was a window, it lasted for about a year, where Carson Wentz was considered greater than Oh, yes.

By a wide margin Mhmm. Dak Prescott. Same draft class.

I know. Now that's that's the moves today that we know of. Okay?

The cowboys did nothing today. Does it surprise you, first of all? Greg, oh.

It does. It surprises me, and I'll tell you why. Because last year, they pulled the rug out from everybody.

And Yeah. Jerry likes repeating tricks. And so I I thought, you know, when he went on record yesterday saying that, well, you know, I don't expect to do anything.

And he was really downplaying it and soft pedaling it. I thought, well, they... They're gonna...

He's trying the same thing again. It's gonna be the same caper. So I I was a little bit...

And and and plus no splashy headlines. Well, what could you... What...

The the only reason I didn't think they would do anything, he he has said they didn't wanna be sellers, which I think they should be. They've never traded a player. I don't know if any player on the franchise tag, which George Pickens has, has ever been traded.

So those are two challenges. What were you what were you gonna give up to get anything in return? Well, that's the problem.

How little they have left. They have a one, two, four, and seven next year, and their number two the year after is gone in the Joey Porter deal. So if you're gonna go get, let's say, Sweat, the very, very good defensive end Yeah.

From Arizona. That's gonna cost you a one plus something. And they're already so out of draft choices the next two years.

But God, that's scary. They're just not one they're not one player away. No.

That's the problem. Mean, every... Everybody says, oh, if they had a pass rusher.

You know? If they had Joshua, let's just say that He's gonna make them a lot better. He will.

But is he gonna put them over that top? Well Is he gonna make him better than the Giants? See, Grego.

You've hit on something right now. No. He's not.

And I'll tell you why, but go ahead, Norm. Jerry, keep thinking this team is that far from the top. They're not.

He he hasn't looked at the first nine games and had it dawn on him. We aren't very good. They're just average.

It's so true. If average. Honestly.

This is what he sees. If we get... And I believe in this in terms of if you're gonna do something, you gotta be optimistic.

You don't look at a mountain and think, well, I can't do that. I I can't climb that. There's no way.

Jerry sees this. We're gonna go do it. We're gonna go do it.

We're gonna do it. And that's one of the reasons why he's been so successful. And that optimism has worked against him because he's looking at a team no different than the last however many years since he's, okay.

We're gonna get into the tournament. We're gonna get hot, and then we're gonna go to the Super Bowl. Does anybody think there is the slightest chance No.

That happens this year with this team? Did it... Did you at any point?

You and I talked before the start of the season, Norm, where you thought they'd be pretty good. I thought they might get to 10 wins, and absolutely not. I mean, look.

You put in Joshua on this team. He makes them better. He does.

Yes. But does he put them over the top? Does he does he make them a division winner?

You have to win the division to get into the playoffs. You're not gonna get a wild card. So you have to you have to jump the Giants, and the Giants are up by two games with eight to play.

If you put Joshua on this team today, does he make them... Does he give them the ability to jump the Giants? I don't think so.

I don't either. Neither do I. Well, no.

Because sooner or later, you're gonna have Josh sweat, and it's gonna come down to a coaching decision, and Harbaugh is gonna outcoach That's my problem. That's where... That...

That's... So, yeah, you got a better player, but you got the same coach. Got the same scheme.

You got the same defense. You guys have touched on two points I'll bring up in a minute, but I'm gonna present this to you all. My pet theory on Jerry.

Jerry is an owner and a general manager. And president. Well, okay.

And we found that oil driller. And in in charge. Chief scout.

And Quarterback's coach. Donates a million and 0.5 in the in the campaign that went down the drain. Okay.

But I'm not political. But I did give a million and 0.5. But I'm not political.

But I'm not political. He's an owner and a general manager. Let's look at the two roles.

An owner is a dreamer. He's a fan. He's a guy who sits in his suite and drinks Johnny Walker blue and says, we're gonna be good.

I swear to you. The general manager has to be the nastiest SOB in a franchise. He's gotta be cut throat.

He's gotta say, we aren't very good, and I'm gonna do something about it. And Jerry's way of doing something about it is spend a lot of money on one player, trade a lot for one player, and you're no you're no better. I'm...

I like Quinn Williams. Okay? Please.

I do. Good player. It's it's hard not to really like him.

Yep. The Cowboys got him in mid season last year. They're a losing team since then.

I mean... But think what they did last year. They had Kenny Clark that they'd gotten in the Mike Parsons deal and Osa...

At the tackles. That's not bad. No.

That was good. That's not a bad combination. Jerry goes out and pays a one and a two and thirty million dollars a year for Quinn and Williams.

He then says, oh lord. I've got too many highly paid defensive tackles. Let me give away Osa Odigizuwa to the forty niners for a third round pick when he was actually worth more than that.

Guys Well, know what, Norm? Hang on. Before that, think about this, and I I brought this up a lot because we're not...

He's out of circulation because he's not playing. You still haven't mentioned the Michael Parsons trade. We will?

Okay. Here's my thought for you guys to chew on. Owner and the general manager are two distinctly different jobs in a franchise.

When the general manager walks through the locker room, it should get a little quieter. He should be feared. Because people say, uh-oh.

Howdy. Because he's got your career in his hands. He can say, no, we don't wanna pay you.

Like, he Roseman does in Philadelphia. We love you. I'm sorry, Josh.

We can't afford you. Josh sweat. To Darius Slay who started the Super Bowl for him at cornerback.

The Super Bowl's over. They have their parade. And Howie says to Darius Slay, bye.

Back in my old bartending days, I had a manager tell me one time wise words. He said, if you're a manager and your employees like you, you're not doing your job. Now that might not apply to today's standards, but In pro sports or in professional America?

Much everything. Okay. You know?

And I... You you you can't be liked, but if you're an owner, you should be liked. You know, that's weird you say that.

I remember one time, Tom Hicks, god rest his soul, the Dallas Stars have been eliminated early in the playoffs. Mhmm. He goes in and reads them all the riot act, Probably in his calm demeanor, you guys knew Tom.

And... But he... He's the owner, and he loved that team.

He... You guys knew how much Tom loves sports. Loves sports.

And he goes in there after they lose in the first round, and he chews them out. And he hadn't done it. That's a very rare thing for him to do.

And I think sometimes as an owner, you're more than entitled. Your name's on that check. Mhmm.

So you're entitled to do it. But to your point, Norm, I think you're right. The general manager is like, listen.

I'm here to win games. Right. And this is my job if we don't.

My only job. Yes. So if you don't like it, I'm sorry.

I think it's their job more than any other is to be upfront with those guys. That brings me to the trade deadline today. Would anybody have given you a three next year and a five the year after for George Pickens?

I I think yes. I'm gonna throw just... You don't need to comment.

Von Miller, Kobe Durant, TJ Bass, Demarvian Overshun, Dee Winners, Luke Schoonmaker, Rachon Gary, Hooker, the safety, Jonathan Mingle, wide receiver, James Houston. Are any of those guys gonna be here next year? I don't think so.

Could you have gotten something for a few of them today? Think a guy like Dee Winters might have been a seventh. You know, something.

Maybe. Maybe Bass could have been a seven that comes to six. Bass Bass is the one that I think maybe who would have gotten something.

Tennessee. Now you wouldn't have gotten this for Willie Cooker, but Tennessee today made a trade with Buffalo and gave them a really solid safety named Amani Hooker. And they got a two for him.

It's a lot. If you're a building Tennessee, you love that. And yet Jerry stood pat because he believes this team is headed for greatness.

The general manager shouldn't think this team is headed for greatness. The owner should, but not the general manager. That's why there's...

There needs to be a gulf between those two. I mean, they need to talk once a month, the general manager and the and the owner. And you know the The owner needs to go get on his yacht and get to the South Of France.

But you know what? I don't think Jerry gave his a This is his job. No.

It's his job. But, I mean, from what I understand, he goes to work in the morning, and he pretty much is done by noon. So Steven Keeping Barry Switzer hours.

And that's just good for him. Steven is doing more of this than his dad. And now where did Steven learn from?

Right? His dad. Yep.

Absolutely. What's Steven gonna be like when he takes over? They're different guys.

Totally. You guys know that. They're different guys.

But will will Steven loosen the grip? Hire someone who can say to Steven, stay over there. No way.

I'm running this club. No way. No way.

You know? No way. The thing about Steven is that, you know, I know he takes a lot of incoming fire, but Jimmy Johnson always used to rave about him how smart he was.

He's a smart man. And you know what? Ever since...

If Jimmy says that, man, it's a gospel to me. And, you know, Bill Parcell said the same thing. So I've had a great, you know I know you hear him on the radio Smart guy.

Stumbles around, but those... When Jimmy gives you that type of endorsement Well... And and the one...

But the one thing about... And Steven has talked about it, and I... He and I have not talked about this in a long, long time.

Jerry's a one of one personality, and one of Jerry's more fascinating endearing traits is his ability to take a punch. Oh, he takes bullets and steps right back out on the field of fire. And has done it since day one.

It's amazing. Just day one. It's it's...

I don't know. And I... I've...

I've... I'm in awe of it sometimes. And the older I get, I'm like, I don't know if that's a great trait.

And the more I think about it, I'm like, no. It is. Steven is not like his dad.

And and and in fairness to Steven, very few people on this earth are. So I think whenever... When...

I I don't... No one wants anything to happen to Jerry. Nobody does.

Whatever you think of him, nobody wants anything bad happen to him. But as as He's 86. Oh, 82?

82. Four. Six.

Eight. 10. I just appreciate average of you two guys.

I I think he's 84. But I think whenever... But I I think the reality...

And I've asked this question. Steven does more and more of this with with each passing season. Yeah.

But to your point, Norm, is that separation of church and state ever going to happen with this team? No. I don't think it it won't happen in my life.

Mean, I don't know you know? Let me ask you this, and and I really mean this because I've seen stuff like this happen. Are we sure it's gonna be passed to Steven?

Are we sure not the girl... The girl's not gonna get it? Charlotte, no.

Well Hey, Jerry. Okay. Okay.

Jerry Junior's not gonna get it. Jerry Junior's not gonna do it. And I say this with...

No, with Stevens, and then it'll be his son. He's always seen something in Charlotte. He hadn't seen you, Steven.

Always has. And I say this with respect for all of them because I appreciate all of them. They've been very gracious to me and any number of our colleagues.

Charlotte is really smart. Oh. Think Charlotte is smarter than Steven.

I do too. And Steven is no dummy. No.

But And and so... You know? But that asked the question, who's Jerry handing off?

You know, when you when you get older, you start thinking different. What age do you think that is? Because Steven is well over his...

He might be in his sixties now. He's my age. He...

He's 64. Sixty four? Mhmm.

That's inch... So when you say you get older, you start thinking different. At what age, Greg, did you hit numbers and just notice?

Because it's happened to me. What what age did you just start thinking different as you said? 23.

15. No. Around 50.

50. Around 50. 50 changed me.

There's something about that magic number. 49, man, you are cool. You're rolling.

You know? The next day you turn 50, and you're over the hill. You're done.

I think, though, it's a fate of complete that Steven's gonna get the team. Yeah. I agree.

I I... He probably will, but things that... Weird have happened.

No. You're... And you know what?

I don't know if you guys caught this or not, but the Baltimore Ravens owner, Steve Bashati, said back in the spring, whenever I decide to be done with this, I'm not giving it to family. I'm selling it because I have seen it tear family members apart. And the Indianapolis Colts have gone through some stuff.

Not bad. But I The bears? For sure.

Oh. You see examples of that. But then you see but then you see the Steelers.

Oh, they've been And so so you see it... But I I think the the days of those type of owners are over. I agree.

It's it's it's the super rich. I mean, Oh, yeah. You know, you know, the...

For a while, your status symbol was your yachts. Ever... All you big billionaires had to have their yacht.

Then they started trying to out yacht everybody. And then somewhere along the line, a billionaire bought him a sports franchise. And now Football team.

And now everybody's gotta have a sports franchise. It's gotta be a premier league team or an NFL team like an an NBA team. Basketball team.

That's climbing the ladder. Yeah. But an NHL team, cares.

But Or now you can own a college football team. Yeah. But but they collect they collect them.

It's a toy. Yeah. You're right.

And and I don't know what the next one will be, but but that scares me when you get all this all this big time tech money. That's Greg Williams. That's Meg...

Mac Engel. I'm Norm Hitzges. We're at Scout.

This is the fabulous sports bar in the Statler Hotel. Get rid of every thought you've ever had of a sports bar. When's the last sports bar you went into that you could bowl in there?

No, you can bowl in here. There's everything. There's air hockey and there's shuffleboard, and there's Pool.

Big Buck Hunter there in the corner over there, and there's pool. And it's a... And there's TV...

Well, it's a sports bar. There's TVG everywhere, but this place is cool. We're here every Tuesday, 05:30 to seven talking football.

Let's go to the game. Indianapolis on Sunday looked to me to be about as dead in the water as you could picture a football team be. The the organization had rightly started trading away players.

Good players, respected players. And the quarterback, the running back, the wide receivers, they were all in the trade whispers out there. They had been beaten 42 to seven the week before by Jacksonville.

And I say this advisedly, if you saw the game, Jacksonville urinated on. It was... They were awful.

And the Cowboys should have just run this pig right off the farm, But they didn't. That fumble at his 19. And now admittedly not his fault.

That was an unusual But with a blast. Seven points for Indianapolis. Much later, C.

Lamb, who had a wonderful game, fumbles at the 11 of Indianapolis, more points lost. Brandon Aubrey, who's become a less dependable long distance kicker this year. They all do.

Misses from 50. Do you guys remember when Dan Bailey would Yep. Never miss again?

Had a hamstring injury and never couldn't find it again. Well, against this bedraggled, disheartened Indianapolis team, Dallas finds itself behind with a minute and thirty seven seconds to go. And I wanna stop right there because I love talking strategy.

And I wanna get your opinion or something. Shoot. Indianapolis has the ball.

Minute and forty five to go in the game. Can I stop you? Nobody knows more about clock management than Norm Hitzges.

Well, no one will judge. No one... No NFL person.

Nobody knows more about it than him. Nobody. When you sit in your living room, it's easy to manage the clock.

Okay. So it's third down and eight, and Indianapolis is already well in field goal range of of Spencer Schrader. They're at the Dallas 32.

Dallas is out of timeouts. There's one forty two on the clock, one forty five on the clock. The strategy is playing.

Run the football. Run the football. And then let the clock run and run and run and run.

And with one second left on the play clock, you call time out. At that point, there's just a tick or two under a minute to go. The field goal is gonna take five seconds, which it did.

You then kick off and you don't kick in the end zone. You kick it in between the 20 and the goal line and make Dallas use another four or five seconds with a return. At that point, when Schrader makes his field goal, you're ahead 23 to 20.

Dallas has no timeouts left and they get the ball back, let's say at their 30 yard line with fifty seconds to go. Is Dallas at this point, gentlemen, thinking of winning the football game? No.

They're thinking of tying. Exactly. No tie, especially with that kicker.

That kicker and no timeouts. Right. Are they gonna go 70 yards and fifty seconds with no timeouts?

No. They're gonna run sideline patterns, or they're gonna use the middle and hurry up and spike the ball. Okay.

Shane Steichen decides to throw the ball. I couldn't believe it. I could.

Really? Well, here's why. And I'm not so smart.

It's not that. It's... We're seeing now increasingly and have for however many years teams saying we're gonna throw it Mhmm.

To to put them away. And that... Because they think of a five yard pass or whatever a short pass is a glorified run.

Right? And we... Belich and Brady did it forever.

Think about how many teams times those games, Patriot games were kinda close, and the Patriots are trying to bury them, and they would throw it on a clock situation where if it's incomplete, they're in the position that the Colts were in. And the difference is, well, you got Tom Brady doing it as opposed to Daniel Jones and a cast of receivers that you can't even name. No.

You can't. And You can't name the That's why that risk is who are your personnel? And that's why when the Colts got the ball back, I was like, game's over, Daniel Jones can't go 80 yards against any defense.

At that point, you're saying I will never And by the way, when he threw the ball, it was a short pass that would've... Wouldn't have gotten in the first down anyway. Oh, was it short?

It was... Yeah. It was about four yards, and they needed eight, and and it's incomplete.

And then the story unfolds from there. Dallas gets the ball back. Dallas must have been giddy on the sidelines when he tried to throw the ball.

Giddy because they get it back with ninety seven seconds to go on the clock. Suddenly, you can be thinking win the football game. Here's my other problem with that decision.

Your defense has played its butts off in the second half. Dallas had a grand total of three points in the first twenty eight minutes of the second half. Say to your defense, I'm gonna eat every second for you guys.

Stuff them. If they happen to hit a long field goal, so be it. We're in overtime.

Yeah. But that might have been the difference between Dallas and then I'll turn this over to you guys for thoughts on this. Dallas, again, playing down to its opposition.

Dallas is great at that. They played down to whoever they're playing. They played down to Arizona.

They played down to Tampa. Do you know... You know, I'm sure.

In Brian Schottenheimer's two years as head coach of the Cowboys, he's beaten two winning teams. That seems like a lot. The two were last year.

Yeah. They haven't beaten it. I mean He beat Casey in Philly.

This year, they've played two winning teams, their own two. Giants and Green Bay. And when they beat Kansas City, how did Kansas City ultimately turn out last year?

Right. Well, were It was a bad team. It was a bad year.

Bad team. It was a bad Hey. If you look at the Cowboys, I mean, they're a hail Mary, a sprained shoulder, and a knee from being winless.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I mean, did they lose their quarterback?

Yep. The hail Mary in Brit... In Brazil?

Yep. I mean, they're they're close to being winless. The Cowboys are killer about it.

And the thing I I wrote this last week in the Fort Worth Star Telegram, and I was looking up all these different numbers and stuff like that. You'll appreciate this. The thing that's so amazing to me, and I'm amazed they didn't hit 30 points against that Colts defense.

If you score 30 points in an NFL game, you're probably gonna win. Mhmm. Your winning percentage of this season of teams winning...

Of of scoring 30 points is, 80%. 82%. Yeah.

It's really high. Wow. And the cowboys, as bad as...

And beleaguered as they are, they've lost two games where they have scored 30 points. Two. Yeah.

They lead the NFL in 30 game losses. And if they had flipped those two, Baltimore, should they have beaten Baltimore? Hell, yeah.

They should have beaten Baltimore. When they got down to the goal line on that last drive and they don't stick that route on the out route, I think it was to Pickens or maybe it was Lam. I don't remember.

And then forget the... And then, good god, the kickoff and giving up the deep ball that Lamar Jackson completed to set up the game winning field goal. What a disaster.

What a disaster that was. Yeah. And then you go to Tampa Bay game was inexcusable because of the quarterback that they were playing.

And then you go to Arizona and now the Arizona one. Inexcusable. Unbelievable.

You you hit 30 points at home against a bad team playing backup quarterbacks. Both quarterbacks who played were backups, and he kicks your ass. And if you flip those two games, just two of them, Baltimore and Arizona, they're in the division race.

You know, and and you're talking about, you know, flipping and and what might happen is I think we're gonna be in the same situation we were with the rangers this year. I think they're gonna be in it till the last week because I'm not as big a believer in the giants as you guys. Oh, I don't...

I'm not... I don't think that's rosters, but who's more talented? Giants?

The the the eagles are done Mhmm. And the commanders are are basically done too. So it's Dallas and the giants.

Who's got the who's got the more talented roster? I think the Cowboys do. I think you're right.

The the... They do. And so so they're gonna be in it all Yeah.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they didn't win in... Against San Francisco. What do you think the point spread what do you think the point spread on that is, by the way?

Four and a half. Three Yeah. And a Open open four and a half.

What... Okay, Norm. I I can't Explain that to me like I'm a third grader how that line dropped.

Okay. Let's flip it around. If this game is in San Francisco Well, San Francisco is obviously favored by half point because you get three points at home.

Well... But if the game is in San Francisco, the opening line on the game is 10 and a half. 10 and a half?

10 and a half. 10 and a half because you flip the three point home field advantage away. It's not like the Cowboys play great at home.

No. But but they get three from the line maker. Okay.

So at that point, I've got to say that's about the right line. So you flip the home field advantage and the line comes out to open four, four and a half. That's about right.

Lot of action on that the first day. Well, San Francisco is a beaten up football team. Their wide receiver core, very shaky.

They're calling Freddie Solomon on it. Very shaky. But Gene Washington.

But how much is Kyle Shanahan worth versus Brian shot nine? 30 points. But guys, this brings me back to this.

You know what? That's a good point. I think it's worth a touchdown.

I think John Harbaugh is the reason why the New York Giants are comfortably ahead in the NFC East. Well The team's not that good. Look who the quarterbacks are.

Can I can I give you a note on that? Shoot. Last year, when trailing going into the fourth quarter, the Giants were two and thirteen.

Two and thirteen. This year, they're three, two, and one. That's coaching.

Amen. Last year, when leading in the fourth quarter, the Giants were four and five. This year, they're five and o.

They've had the lead in fourth quarter five times. They won all five football games. Hey.

I think we're going through a a change in in football because I think we're entering a time where coaching is more prevalent and and more important than it's ever ever... Especially in college. Oh.

Because it's all a level playing field now. More so. And so I'm in the days of Daryl Royal and ocean back talent.

You can't do that anymore. Oh, I think Nick Saban left for the right for the right time, the right reason. But, you know, you're talking about coaching and Harbaugh.

You gotta have coaches. And I know Jimmy... Pardon me.

Jerry, when when he named Schottenheimer the head coach, I'm sitting there, and I'm thinking, this guy's been in the league for thirty years. Whatever anybody's been around forever, and he still sees a head coach the same way today that he did when he said, you could name one of 500 coaches when we win that team to a Super Bowl to diminish and devalue and hurt his friend, Jimmy Johnson. And now more than ever, that...

And he proved that statement right when he went out and hired Barry Switzer. He was right. Well well, kinda.

Because Barry won it with with with Jimmy's players. My point was was the point. That was Anybody could do it.

Yeah. And he did. Yeah.

And... But the league has changed. The salary cap has changed.

Free... All that stuff has changed. And if you look at what Harbaugh has done, Kyle Shanahan has done, Sean McVeigh, name a handful of other guys, all these high end coaches who make all this money that he doesn't put any stock into, Are you professional?

Do you... What happened on Sunday with the Marvin and Overshaw run around there and acting a fool on the field to celebrate a turnover, that should never happen ever. What was the punishment for running on the field?

They talked to him. Talked to him. That...

That's the punishment. And I think the Cowboys should have announced that's a $10,000 fine for Demarvion Overshone. And the next time it happens at any point of your cowboy career, that triples.

I cut him. And if it happens again, it triples You know you know I would do? Jimmy would have cut him.

I would I would use that. And and see, that's where he's not experienced as a manager because that was the perfect example. They got the win, and he went in there and celebrated when he should have gone in there and go, yeah.

We got the win. We're glad we got a win. It's tough to win.

Get wins in here, but I wanna talk about the player that ran on the field. That is un... That is unacceptable.

We don't take that here with the Dallas Cowboys. And to let you know, he is no longer with the squad. Well, let You know what?

That would send a message to the team He would do and the fans. Let me ask you a question about Brian Schopenhauer. I honestly mean this.

I... To go back, I really like Wade Phillips. Wade Phillips is a nice man.

He's a nice man. Okay? You're gonna fire me up on He's this a nice man.

I think Brian Schottenheimer's a nice man. I'd love Brian Schottenheimer to live next to me Yeah. Because I think he's the kind of guy that would...

Mary and I went on vacation. Brian would say, I'll mow your grass for you while you're gone. Yeah.

Okay? I think he's nice. I don't want the guy...

I want the guy that'll throw a keg party. There you go. Well, no.

That's who I want. But do you want him or do you want a guy that a guy who makes a mistake says, oh, dear god. I hope he doesn't cut me.

I don't think the players are afraid of Brian shot now. I'm not afraid of him at all. They're not.

What do you think? No. And and, you know, you mentioned Wade.

I really liked Wade the man. Oh. He was Me too.

Too nice. He was passive aggressive. He was non confrontational.

He was a good coach. He was a terrible head coach. He should be very sensitive, and I'll never forget it.

You know, I covered him when he was here. I remember one time he says in one of those press conferences, he said, no. I'm I'm the softy.

He admits it. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, well, okay.

Least we don't. His daddy wasn't a big hard ass either. No.

And who would he have learned from? But as a That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

You're right. And and but I will say this to his to his credit because it's more important than being a good football coach. He was a good man.

He's a good husband. He's a great dad. Yep.

And if that's... If if if anybody's gonna say in this lifetime where you weren't a great head coach, well, that's okay. Yeah.

Because there was a co... Head coach on that team who was a damn good head coach and a freaking miserable person to be around at times. Oh, ourselves?

Absolutely. And I like Bill. No.

See... And see One of his assistants called him the failed human being. And and see, here's the deal.

With That's true. You know, we've been sitting here talking about Jimmy and with revisionist history, but I was there. Yeah.

You covered him. Every bit of it. Yep.

And I'm telling you, it was miserable being around Jimmy Johnson. Oh, I'm sure it was. It was miserable covering that team because he made it uncom...

Norm, you remember how uncomfortable he made that? Well, everything was uncomfortable, but Bill was the same way. He he he knew the pulse of the team, and he knew that's what it took.

And you know what? To his credit... And I I don't think to his credit, I think that the NFL was starting to change when he went to the Miami Dolphins, and that's why it didn't work...

And that he didn't have a quarterback, but that's why it didn't work anymore. Jimmy. I don't know.

I did Jimmy's TV show with him. I don't know what's the core of Jimmy Johnson. I think what we saw on the surface was the human being Jimmy created to be a head coach and what he thought he had to be because Jimmy was good cop, bad cop.

And I talked to him for the the book I did on the nineties cowboys years after it was over. And Jimmy told me he simply had gotten tired of playing the mind games here. And you notice his pattern?

Five years, sophomores gone. Five years, o... Oklahoma State, Miami.

Five years, gone. Five years, Cowboys gone. Four years, Miami Dolph gone.

Jimmy Jimmy wore himself out. I think... Didn't I hear him say, Greg, you would know this, at some point in the nineties after he had left, that he contributed to that exit, that he was looking to leave too, that he was tired, and I think the relationship would...

So I know Jerry takes all of the blame for that. And Jerry... I remember he said he said, I flat fired Jimmy's ass with a great deal of amount of pride.

I don't know why you'd be proud of that, but I have thought... I'm 99% certain I've heard Jimmy own up to I was looking to leave too. I I wouldn't doubt that at all.

Because I think Jacksonville was flirting with him at the time. Yeah. They were.

While he was the head coach of the Cowboys. Yeah. And I I And he talked about it.

But see, the thing is, I don't think anybody in the history of NFL has gone into a job more prepared than Jimmy Johnson. That's interesting. He was prepared forever.

He put his wife on waivers. Okay? Yeah.

Yeah. You know? I mean, he he knew that he couldn't be a married guy and do the job right.

He knew he had to commit, and he was so prepared for it, and he had such a plan. Now a little luck came in. You know?

I mean, he had he had a guy that would spend a little bit of money. Yep. You know, he he had a a a wildcatter.

It worked out. But he was so prepared. And by doing that, I think he totally poisoned the position of head coach to Jerry Jones.

Jerry thought it was easy to be a head coach. No. For sure.

He thought it was easy. And not only that, but Jimmy got... And here we go into to semantics and and credit.

But, you know, Jerry has never let it go that he didn't get the credit because I asked him that, Greg, one time, and he he flatly denied. I think he's full it. I don't care what he says.

No. Part of my language. I think he's full of it, but he denied that.

Look look what he said. Yeah. And be...

And and every year they don't win, it grows more. The Jimmy legacy grows more. Totally.

He has totally poisoned them, and he proved that he went out and got Barry Switzer. And then he said, you know what? He's not working.

So he gets... Chan Gaby, somebody nobody ever heard of. He diminished the position.

He totally did. I mean, what does it say, guys? And you've been here longer in this community than I have.

I moved here in '90... I moved... The first year I moved here...

The year I moved here was when it started to slide, '96. So you're the fault. It's not a coincidence.

I'm gonna back up something. Oh, I'm sorry. I gotta stop.

Go ahead. I wanted to ask you guys this. What does it say that here in 2026, that's still one of the most prominent topics of discussion about the local football team is about a football coach who has not been here since 1995.

Because he created a mystique. And and and it grows every year because... And every year they don't win one.

Yeah. His gets bigger. It does.

It gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Mac, I've got support for a thought you offered. In the book I I did called greatest team ever.

Jimmy Jimmy gave me like an hour plus Oh, that's good. On a phone. And I thought any minute now Jimmy's gonna say, thanks.

Bye. But he didn't. Jimmy told me, and it's in there.

It's right there, and I wrote it. Jimmy told me that the spring he got fired by Jerry, he already had circled a date about four or five weeks down the road he was going to resign. Before the draft, he was going to resign because he'd had enough.

And that that weighs in with exactly what you're saying. Jimmy wanted out too. It was toxic, man.

I remember those days. You could feel the tension at Valley Ranch. You know, what is it about...

We have seen great teams, great groups, And I'm talking music, entertainment, sports, the nineties bulls, the cowboys, Jimmy and Jerry, the Beatles, the Eagles, and there is something about that dynamic. Yeah. But the Eagles aren't having a good year, Mac.

But what is it about that dynamic where no one can step back and say, guys, we are living life at the largest stage. Let's not screw this up, and all of them do it. Well, you know what?

Mick Jagger and Keith Richards didn't speak for five years. I never knew that. Didn't speak for five years.

While they were playing? Oh, yeah. But didn't talk.

They didn't talk. They didn't talk. But they put out two records, and one...

And and one of them, they produced it and recorded it on two different continents. Two different continents. That's how much they hated each other.

Hated each other. Yep. By the end of their time together, Jimmy and Sherry were on different continents.

But for some reason, for sixty years, they kept it together, and they're still going. That's amazing. And they hate each other.

We're gonna talk coaches when we come back. We're gonna take a very short break. We're gonna talk coaches and does it matter what you pay them?

That's next on Three Wide at Scout, the fantastic sports bar inside the iconic Statler Hotel in Downtown Dallas. Three Wide at Scout continues in just a moment. Howdy.

This is Three Wide at Scout, the wonderful sports bar in the lobby of the iconic Statler Hotel in Downtown Dallas. Forget all you've ever known or thought about a sports bar be. Inside this place, you can shoot pool.

Alright. You could play air hockey. Okay.

Foosball. Yeah. Shuffleboard.

Yes. You get down here in the corner Mac and get on the electronic game. Big buck hunter.

I've gotta be careful about saying that. Okay? But you can bowl in pop a shot.

Yeah. You got pop a shot. You got everything.

Come on and see us. We're here every Tuesday, 05:30 to seven talking football. Saw Babe Blauffenberg one time make 77 straight papa shots.

77 Are you serious? Yes. I once saw you take 77 straight papa shots.

77 shots. 77? 77 shots in a row.

When the cowboys were training in in Austin, some bar we were at one night, and he hit and he hit 77 in a row. We were talking coaches. The subject has come up the last couple of weeks about the cowboys that they they pay a low amount of money for their head coaches.

Now, they they didn't pay Jimmy much. You can go back and look that up. I'm sure Switzer didn't hold Jerry's feet to the fire.

Poor Chan Gailey. Poor Dave Campo. Bill Parcells probably cost a little money.

He got paid. Wade Phillips probably didn't cost a lot of money. Chase Garrett didn't cost a lot of money.

No. Time out. Jason Garrett did.

He did. Yeah. By the end, he got a bit because he he was a he was a a a hot commodity.

He was. Remember this. There's two guys.

Atlanta and Baltimore after him. Yeah. I thought that was St.

Louis. Doesn't matter. When Jason Garrett was here, he made him the highest paid offensive coordinator in the NFL to keep him.

He was making close to what the head coach you were making. Yeah. Well, I and remember, Norm, when Dan Quinn was gonna leave as the defensive coordinator, he gave him big money to make sure he didn't leave.

But he paid Mike McCarthy a moderate amount of money? He did. He's paying Rhyner a moderate amount of money.

The lowest amount of money. Harold. Is it is it the lowest?

He is the lowest paid coach in the NFL, but there's no correlation. Seems like that would embarrass Jerry. Well, I I bet it's a point of pride.

But isn't? Wow. I mean, Jerry's proud of a lot of things.

There's no salary cap on your head coach. There's none. But but Norm, who wanted the salary cap in the first place?

Jerry. No. I mean, there's no salary cap on hiring a head coach.

I know. But who who wanted who wanted a mechanism to prevent himself against himself? Jerry did.

Right. Same guy that said, why are we rubber stamping CBS when Fox wants in? Same guy.

Yep. The question for me is, Jerry... Does Jerry still believe that 500 guys could coach the Dallas cowboys baloney?

See, that's what I don't know. I don't know if he really does or not. He might believe it on Monday.

He might say it on Tuesday, and he might change his mind on Friday. Well, he's hired eight eight coaches since Jimmy, and he hasn't been back to an NFC championship game. Did you think getting rid of Mike McCarthy was the right idea?

No. You're not bringing him back? What did you think?

I asked the question. Okay. You're gonna fire him.

Good. Who you gonna hire? Always the question.

Who you gonna hire? Who you gonna bring in? Yeah.

They didn't fire him. They just didn't give him the amount of money he wanted. And then they gave me a list of coaches that, oh, here here you go.

And they didn't hire any of them. Well, Mike McCarthy talked to him. Yeah.

We'll get to that list in a minute. Mike McCarthy in his last year here had gone twelve and seven, twelve and seven, twelve and seven, dropped to seven and ten and got fired for him. The seven and ten was a year in which Dak Prescott played, I believe, eight games.

So he wobbles along and goes seven and ten with Cooper Rush slinging it around. Okay. Here comes Brian Schottenheimer.

Jerry adds players to his team. Jerry goes out and tries to prop him up. Dak Prescott has maybe the first or second best year of his entire career last year.

And he got... I've got issues with that, but go ahead. And he goes seven, nine, and one.

The same record as Mike McCarthy. And by the way, he... He's on track to do the same thing again this year.

And With Prescott healthy. But let's... There's two things.

Here's my issue with specifically Dak Prescott stats like that. When were those yards, and when did those points, and when were those plays made? How Fourth quarter from behind.

Right. How many... How much of it was garbage But That takes that takes more work than I'm gonna put into it.

So then there's that. And then to Schottenheimer, right before the start of the season, five minutes before his first season as an NFL head coach ever. Like that.

He says, yeah. We're trading away your best player. What do you think?

And the biggest... And the most talented player, not the best one, the most talented player. And the whole thing is Schonheimer signed off on it, and the Cowboys, the leadership committee, whatever the hell that is, signed off on it too.

What I wanna know is, would it would it would Greg, if Brian Scheinheimer says, you're doing what to me? You're giving away a top three pass rusher right now on me in my first year? I want two more years on my deal.

Do we know he didn't say that? Do you... What do you think?

I don't know if he did. No. He didn't.

He didn't say it. And by the way, neither did Matt Eber Flus, who's told five minutes before the season. By the way, you don't have Michael.

And then halfway through the season, by the way, we've just given a one and two for another defensive tackle even though you didn't need one. But he's the guy that Kenny Clark was supposed to be. Mhmm.

And Kenny Clark hasn't been that guy in four years. I I agree. So let's go back to coaches.

When the Cowboys needed a head coach two years ago, Mike Frable was in the marketplace. Has good relationship with reporters, I've heard. Oh, very good relationship.

But Mike was out there. Ben Johnson was the hottest assistant in the NFL. He was out there.

Liam Cohen, who's the head coach at Jacksonville now. Excellent reputation as an offensive coordinator. He was out there.

The Cowboys did not ask to interview any of them. They did not even ask to interview a guy you know, Brian Flores. Yeah.

With only basically fulfilling the Rooney rule Mhmm. To interview minority candidates. They then said, oh, wait a minute.

Our interview with Brian Schottenheimer was so good. We're gonna name him that coach. Did you see...

Either you guys see that coming? No. No.

No. I'll give him credit forever. One zero five three, The Fan, Sean Sharif put that out there first.

I'm like, Sean does not know what he's talking about. There's no way that is right, and he was totally right. So I don't know who told him, but I got that, and I'm like, what?

I was like, there's no way they're going to name this Neppo baby the head coach. He's never been an NFL... He's never been a head coach before on any level.

I'm telling you, Jimmy poisoned that position. Mean, you're never gonna have it again because there are too many nonstarters. I mean, all these coaches you want to come in here, they're gonna demand four things.

They won't... And and and they have to have four or four. They can't have three or four.

Okay? Number one, total control of the roster. Right.

Okay? Total control of the draft. Two.

Two. One voice. They're the only ones that talk.

Nobody else talks. That means the Wait a minute. You mean no Jerry press conference?

That means no Jerry press conference? That means no Jerry talking after the games. And finally, a salary between 15 and 20,000,000 a year.

That's number one. These days. Yes.

So I He can't... He... All of those are nonstarters to Jerry.

Every single one of them. And it... It's crazy to even talk that way because no other coach is gonna come in here because they know what this job is.

But they don't know it until they do it. That... That's one thing I learned.

See, think Ben Johnson knew it because he didn't even wanna enter. No. He didn't wanna hear call him.

And the thing that's... The thing that has not changed since I was covering the league daily, however many years ago, one, however bruised the star is, still the Dallas Cowboys, still the the main draw in the NFL. True.

It still is. And I... I've been saying it for twenty years.

It's diminishing, but it's really not. But it's not. And it is, but it's not.

I mean, the odds joke. The odds tell you that, my god, why are they putting the cowboys on prime time? Look at the ratings.

And then the ratings every year. Oh, because don't don't you think, Greg, Norm, don't you think watching them lose and languish like this? It has a Chicago Cubs Oh.

Boston Red Sox macabre feeling where just watching America's team be crappy again is unbelievably good theater. I think there's a lot of that out there. But then again, did you see how many cowboy fans were in the stand Sunday in Indianapolis?

Most of them. I mean, and and I remember taking all those road trips Yeah. Before the cowboys were good.

And you'd go into Washington, and it would be loaded loaded with cowboy fans. Giants the same way. You'd go to Philadelphia, you know, and it wouldn't be half, but they would have a huge contingent of cowboy fans.

And and I don't think... But the thing that baffles me And they weren't that great then. I mean, they got great.

But think about how many fans this franchise built generationally. Oh. I mean, just turnover and turnover and turn...

Like, all these passed down fandom. Okay. Let me ask you.

Sunset grandsons How did they do that and that didn't happen to... On a national level to the Packers? Well, I have a theory on this.

I've I've I've given this a lot of thought through... Norm, you can relate to this, books that I wrote. You had four or five different things going on simultaneously that created this where we are today.

You had a winning team. You were playing through Tech's vision in the NFC East. So you were playing in the biggest markets twice a year.

You were winning a lot. You were always around it. Mhmm.

You had the loosely... Loose affiliation with the most popular television show going when there weren't that many in Dallas. Right?

You were affiliated with that show. You had the growth of this market and this region after the death of president Kennedy and the total reidentity that was going on anchored around a football team while television and the NFL were growing simultaneously. Yeah.

I Do you buy any of that? I buy every bit of it, and I'm gonna add to it. Okay.

Because I think Tex Schramm was such a visionary. No doubt. Mean, he's he he should be the father of the NFL.

He created it. He did. Because he was the first one to understand the power of TV.

Yep. And he... All you have to do is look at the Dallas cowboys.

You know, everybody else had uniforms, and all of a sudden, what was big in the seventies... In the in the sixties and seventies? Space.

Space. Everybody wanted to be everybody wanted to be an astronaut. What color did the cowboys go to?

Metallic and blue. I mean, that's very spacey. Well, we can't dis...

We... There's one thing we can't diminish in terms of its popularity. Cheerleaders.

Cheerleaders. And and once again, Tex Sharam, how did he get the idea? All the networks would cut to the best looking women in the stands.

And he goes, what if I dressed them up in cheerleading outfits? That's right. You know?

Like dancers on high heels and stuff. The power of TV. And look at the cowboys.

You know, you look at their their original uniform, hot pants and go go boots. Relic Relics of the sixties. Let me just say, in...

On behalf of balancing out the tech shram talk, he died and left no notice of where all the bodies are buried. Then would... Did you say the same thing of Gil Brandt?

That... No. Well...

Gil knew... Knew a lot. Okay.

Quick story, Tex. Yeah. I get here to work for Channel four in the summer of seventy two.

The... No. January seventy two.

So the cowboys go to the Super Bowl. Yes. But then the word is starting to leak around the NFL about salaries because Bob Lilly went to the Pro Bowl and found out Merlin Olsen was making twice as much as he was.

Do know what the number would have been? Like, 70,000 or something? Was like a...

I think it was a 110 to 55 or something. Ridiculous. Anyway Here comes the text here comes the text scam.

His... Oh, text in his contracts. Anyway, I did a series called, why aren't these men smiling?

And it would start with a team picture of the Cowboys and zoom in to the guy we were focusing on that day and why he was unhappy. And I asked Tex to do an interview for it, and he refused. So Al Ward was a wonderful guy, the assistant GM.

He did the interview. Fast forward about a month. Go to training camp at Cal Lutheran.

Walking down the hallway, that's when they stayed right in the dorms. They... The offices...

I was there I was there in 1989. Walking down the hallway with my cameraman, Tex Schram comes out the door and turns and hits toward us. And I thought, oh my god.

So as he gets close to us, I said to him, mister Schram, my name is Norm Hitzges from channel four. And he looks at me and he says, I know who you are. And I said, well, I've I've been I've been trying to get you to do an interview for this series we were doing.

And I I wonder if you would have time around here for the next several days. And he looks at me and he... Even then, texts are starting to have a little bit of the quivers.

Okay? And he points a craggy finger right at me. And he says, I don't need your kind of forum.

And walks right past me. And it was two years before he even nodded at me on the football field. It was crazy.

But, anyway Wait a minute. It was... Norm, was the whole series about why these guys are mad about how little they're paid?

No. It was different things about how the contracts had played one against another. See, what he did, he paid them low salaries, but he always said, but you guys make so much playoff money.

Yeah. That was his deal. Yep.

And I had have them was worse, Gil Brandt? I'm... God rest his soul, and Gil was always nice to me.

But older players, that'll... A lot of those guys did not like Gil Brandt. They didn't like Tom Lander either.

Yeah. You're right. But I think they respected certainly didn't like...

Oh, they respected all of them. I did. See, I couldn't tell that with Gil, but I certainly knew they respected Tom.

And Tex because they feared him. They were afraid of Tex. There you go.

And, god, it just changed so much. Yeah. And the thing that I always...

I got a good appreciation for, whether it was talking to Charlie Waters or Cliff Harris, name the guy, did any of those guys, is that at some point, they got very resentful of how much they kept their salaries down. Yes. Ask Cliff Harris and Charlie Waters about the soccer shoes.

I don't know this one. Well, that's when they were in those big clotty cleats. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. You know, when when Charlie and and Cliff were young players, they said, you know, these new Adidas soccer shoes are so much better.

And so they they went to the equipment manager, Buck Buchanan Oh, yeah. And said, you know, can you get us some of these? Yeah.

I can order them for it, but you're gonna have to pay for Oh. And they go, but they're gonna help us play better. Yeah.

But you're gonna have to pay for them, but I can order them for you. Hey. One year, their their veteran center, Dave Manders, contracted run out.

There was no free agency. He... He's in an off season standoff with Tex, and he wanted $35,000.

This was a fine player. He wanted what that makes in a quarter. 35,000 So...

No. He wanted 38, and Tex offered 35. They would...

Dave said, no. I'm standing on this. So it comes time for camp, and Dave was a player.

He wanted to be the camp. So he gets into text and says, okay. I've got a solution that I will accept.

I'll play for $35,000 if you give $3,000 to my Catholic church. And tech said no. And that would have been a write off for the Cowboys.

Unbelievable. And... Okay.

Let's go back to this year, Steve, again. I wanna ask something. This club right now is thirty first in this league in yards penalized per game.

They are sloppy, sloppy, sloppy, sloppy, sloppy, stupid. A lot of stupid penalties. I've never seen I've never seen anything like it.

At some point, can't the coaches do do something about that? So I've I've kicked this debt very topic in my head around the last two weeks. Because in my backyard, TCU is going through the same thing.

Greg, you follow TCU. Yeah. Just self inflicted comedy of errors, stupid, idiot, sloppy, sloppy, sloppy like Norm said.

And I always go back to this one thing, and it was a total BS out. Bill Parcells, where he was with the Giants, Jets, Cowboys, Patriots, would say, I don't coach penalties. I was like, you coward.

Yep. How much if you had to sit there and wait? What...

Like the Colts... Pardon me, against the Colts on Sunday, how much would you say that's on the players? You committed the penalty, and how much of it is on the head coach and his staff for failing to emphasize, guys, you're professionals.

Mistakes are gonna happen. But that was unbelievable. I think there are two things.

And I think one of the things... And and this is in all sports. I don't think players know the rules of their game.

I think you're more right about than even you would suggest. I I don't think they I agree. I don't think they know the rules.

The basics. The basic rules. I don't think...

Because if you're in the NFL, you were the best player on your team from the time you were six years old. You didn't have to learn the rules. Do you think They hit the ball and you run fast?

Do you think Tom Harvey on over shown understood that was a 15 yard penalty? You're right. No.

No. I I don't think they understand the rule. And so that leads me to believe that the coaches...

You've gotta go down to the studs to teach these people. Back to the Giants commanders game earlier this season where they had the total clock screw up on the part of the commanders in the final minute of overtime. We've seen that.

We've seen that a couple of different times. Baltimore? Yeah.

Baltimore. And I'm like... And I'm sitting there watching this, and I'm like, I don't think the players know the rules.

Yeah. And that's why I'm like, you as a coach now more than ever or just as much, you have to treat them like they're in the fifth grade. And and...

But see, when you when you contrast that up against the ridiculous rules they must play within now. So if you don't know the rules and then they teach you about, you know, don't drop your head. You're thinking too much.

Yep. And and so you you don't know the rules, so that's that's a big problem. And then the rules that you do know, you're so cognitive of it that you think too much.

Well... And, like, how many of those penalties are we seeing now in the NFL? About twenty years ago, it wasn't a penalty.

Do do you really do you really put on the player? Like, we're seeing some of these roughing the passer calls That it's or pass interference calls on. You can't hold that against him.

Okay. Wait. I'm gonna ask you a question.

Dak Prescott escapes the rush, runs. He's not sliding. He's out of the pocket.

He's across the line of scrimmage. He's not sliding. He sees the defender coming.

He lowers like this. The defender lower also and the helmet's hit. If that's a running back, is that called?

Yeah. No. No.

No. Not at all. You don't...

You think it's a no. It's not even a coin toss. But you have to you have to understand the mindset of the referees.

They're there to protect the quarterbacks. And when they see a quarterback in the open field, you better Take it easy. You better take it easy.

Yep. And that's so unfair because you get a guy like Josh Allen that is bigger than most defensive ends, and he can break tackles. Absolutely.

But referees are also taught that when the quarterback hits the open field, he is a runner. That's the that's the He's a runner. That's the rules, but their mindset is protecting.

Do you think that runner though, if if you take the QB tag off Prescott and he's Javonte Williams, he's C. Lamb, he's Jake Ferguson. I don't think I I I Doesn't get called.

No. Doesn't get called at all. Not at all.

You know? And and so, again, not knowing the rules and then having the rules enforced like that, that's just a disaster. I'm gonna take you forward to this week's game.

It's against the 49ers. Cowboys home, four and a half point underdogs. I would like to slip in one I found fascinating fact because, you know, I follow the lines of games fairly closely.

I've heard that. Alright? I've heard that.

Rhyner Schottenheimer is now 10, 14, and one. It is 25. Can you do it?

It's a lot of No. Wait. Nine, 17 is 20.

He is 11, 14, and one. Do you know that nine of his 14 losses have come when the Cowboys are favored in a game? No.

Is that astounding? Yes. I wouldn't have believed that.

Nine of the of 14? Nine. Sixth times they lost last year were favored, and three times they've lost this year.

Norm, can I ask you an an odds question? Sure. So you say they were favorite.

They were the favorite to win. Does that really mean whomever is setting those odds really believes the Cowboys are going to win that game, or they believe this is the best number I can set to get good action in field. But when you see this nine times over two years, I mean, toss-up games, I agree with you.

Toss-up game, it could have gone either way. Arizona wasn't a toss-up game. No.

Tampa was not a toss-up game. Well, think about it before the season. Last year was not a toss-up game.

That's why I've always said that when the NFL schedule goes out, no human being can take their team and tell me three games they're absolutely gonna win and three games they're absolutely gonna lose. Well, for me, like, the the biggest metric that is... The the most worthless metric now for the NFL is strength of schedule when it...

Before the season starts. Based on last year. It's based on last year, and it's it's...

And even... Forget even last year. And it is such an advantage for the people that finished, you know, last...

Just unbelievable. But to me, it's more like, who's gonna get every... This...

Whatever the roster looks like on August 30, that's not gonna be the case on September 15 or certainly October 15. I mean, look how many different advantages the Cowboys had. They were hosting the Cardinals.

Backup backup quarterbacks couldn't beat them. They were hosting the Tampa Bay bucks playing an undrafted rookie free agent. Who was that guy?

From Kansas. Who was that guy? Jalen Daniels, baby.

What about the running back from the cardinals? I I That had a... I didn't even know who that guy was.

I never heard of him. And all all of a sudden heard of he's lighting them up for one seven. Couldn't stop him.

I told Greg all this. The cardinals offensive machine, the last twenty minutes of that game consisted of the only active running back they had left on the roster. If Tyler Alger had been hurt, they did not have another active runner.

So Now now wait. I'm gonna to Okay. They lost two of their top four wide receivers for the game.

So they were using They were one injury away from Rod Tidwell. Well But realize who they had to play. Their their fifth wide receiver that played a bunch was Simi Fajoco.

Who? Dallas drafted him six years ago. Oh, yeah.

And after two years, thought he couldn't play and dumped him. And he's out catching a pass. Anyway, if they lost another wide receiver, they'd had to go three tight ends because they had only two wide receivers left.

So you name all this stuff, and we're killing Brian Schottenheimer. He's... Listen.

If anybody understands this, it would be Brian Schottenheimer because he grew up in the house. Right. But if you had to...

If you... If somebody said, Norm, Greg, you gotta get rid of one. You can't get rid of both.

Would it be the defensive coordinator or would it be the head coach? Once again, who are you gonna get? The obvious answer and the correct answer is the head coach.

So because if you get rid of the head coach, you get rid of the defensive coordinator. Pretty much. He's gonna bring his own guys But but who are you gonna get?

Well, I And and I mean Okay. Do you trust Jerry to hire them? Well, stop for a second.

Okay? I'm gonna We know the four nonstarters. He's not gonna agree to those.

I'm gonna I'm gonna now go to the side of Brian Schottenheimer and Christian Parker. Okay. Lonely side.

Here we go. Here Here we go. Alright.

Jerry built a roster. Tell me the pass rusher's name. Right now?

Who's the pass rusher on this? Jonathan Azeraku and Malachi Lawrence. Lawrence has one sack.

Rookie. Rashawn Gary. Losing more and more playing time.

That's the only one. Before he got hurt. Rashawn Gary's toast.

Rashawn Gary has two sacks. He's done. Jesse Hawila has two and a half.

Miller has one. DeJuan Miller's done. Why haven't they used James Houston who had five and a half sacks last year at a part time role?

I don't know. Let's keep going. Okay.

Okay. So defensive end we have our questions about. Is this new guy on defense even helped at all?

Well, let's keep let's keep going. I would I would call his name if I remembered it. Mike Penton.

I'm... Okay. There you Mike Penton.

Just couldn't remember it, so I can't can't believe I remembered that, by the So I called him the new guy on defense. He's a former Browns That's a talk radio trick. Let's You know, the new guy on defense.

Let's go to linebacker. Do we have to? I'm gonna give you the four cowboy linebackers.

D winners at San Francisco last year replaced Fred Warner when he's hurt and played all last year's starter. San Francisco thinks they're a prime Super Bowl contender this year. They agreed to send d winners away for a for a fifth.

A five? A five. Oh, I thought it was a four.

It was... You're right. It was a five.

Five. Okay. Tomorrow beyond over show.

They'll rue the day they traded a TCU player. Can't... They'll rue the day they trade a TCU player.

Look at Turpin. Look at his contributions. Can't can't stay healthy.

Nope. And when he's in the game Good player. He's running around a lot.

He's a good player, Norm. He... He's a good player, but let me tell you something.

When the linebacker has to cover, oh my god, are we seeing different... Differences on this franchise when linebackers have to cover, not just play the run, but cover. Okay.

Let's keep going. Third round draft choice. The buzz of training camp, Jay Sean Barrow, who's right in the starting lineup, went over to when he got served.

He plays. He plays. He plays.

And then all of sudden, he's not playing as much. And then he's not playing as much. I asked Greg all this so you don't get to give this answer.

How many plays did Jason borrow play Sunday with over shown out of the lineup? I'm gonna take under 12. Three.

Three? Three. He played three plays.

That first three weeks of the season, three weeks of the... I'm doing this. Three weeks of the season, Norm, I thought like they got a player right there.

Me too. But you know what? He he tends to jump into a hole Yep.

Instead of reading the play. He'll jump in that hole, and Rhyner will go right by him over here. Yep.

And he... He's got talent. I wonder if he isn't a defensive end, quite honestly.

He played most of that in college. Well, let me, you know, let me, you know, throw another problem in. If these players could practice, he might get better.

Your lips to God's ears. That's a huge problem football. I mean, they they do their job 17 times a year.

There there is... In football now Mhmm. There's more incentive not to play than there is to play.

It... It's like this right here. It's like that all week long, all the NASCAR drivers are in simulators.

Yeah. And then on Sunday, they say, okay. Get out the Daytona five hundred.

It's live cars. And you can't do it. I totally agree with you.

You And I god. That's how come when when I see broken tackles, you don't get to tackle anymore. I...

I'm gonna keep going with you guys. Let's look at the starting cornerbacks this season. Oh, this is gonna be fun.

Duron Bland is toast. Is he toast? He's toast.

Hang on. Is he toast because they're... He's in the wrong scheme, or is he toast because he's toast?

It's it's four years now since Duron Bland played well. Okay. He had that one giant ear, got paid, and I'm sorry.

He was mediocre the year before last, mediocre last year, and he's less than mediocre this year. He's gonna get cut. So did he just have He's get cut.

Did he just have an unbelievable year? Here. Remember the magic here, Trayvon Diggs had?

But the thing is Magic here. Same thing. Man, I mean, he...

It's not like he lucked any day. He made plays. He made plays.

He made plays. He did. You're right.

But but now, can he cover is what offensive coordinators around the league are saying? Can he absolutely... Does he make the interceptions when he's covering or does he make the interceptions on tip balls, gets it anyway.

Gruber Bland is is being abused now. And Bryant, the other cornerback, I think he's a pretty nice player. What worried me was when he went to free agency this off season, At 28 years old, a one year $5,500,000,000 contract was the best he could get.

It's pretty telling. It's pretty telling. K.

Now, Locke, I think, is a nice player, but I don't know when we'll see him again because back to back concussions, god help his soul. No doubt. I truly mean that.

Yep. And the safeties, I think Downs is a good young player and he's gonna get even better. But Jaylen Thompson was lost early in the season, and I'm looking...

I don't wanna alibi for Krishna Parker. What I'm saying is I look at the roster Jimmy or Jerry gave him, and I can now find six or seven players that I'm saying, wait a minute. You have to play him.

That's just on defense. Right. But On offense, in fairness, there's not many guys you would say, well, these guys are bums.

Right. Terrence Steele is the guy who's under the microscope. Yeah.

He's done. He's done. Yep.

I agree. But after the season, Bland, Clark, are those guys done too? Remember, Cowboys have only four draft choices next year.

And they don't like And one of them is a seven. And they don't like signing expensive free agents. Don't like signing?

No. They don't like that at all. Every time I bring this up, I get attacked, but are we gonna have to start looking at Will McClay?

It's a fair question. Fair. Every time every time I say that, I get attacked.

It's a fair question because one thing... And I... I've had a couple guys push back on me about one thing that you've mentioned.

The head coach has more power than we think, depending on the coach. Or should. Or should.

He has more power than you think. But, you know, regarding Will, he has a lot of respect in that office, a lot because he's a workaholic. Yes.

And, you know, he he has found guys, but look, that defensive that defense that you just mentioned, that's not good. No. And those are his guys.

Guys, we are out of time. Oh, no. And I still had seven points.

Anyway Yeah. Next week. Mac Engel.

Thank you very telegram. Thanks, buddy. Thank you very much.

Grego, good to see you again, buddy. You, Norm. Thanks to all of you.

Hey. Next Tuesday, why don't you come down to Scout the sports bar here at The Statler in Downtown Dallas? We'll be right back here next Tuesday starting at 05:30 for Three Wide at Scout.

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