Cowboys Tackle Turmoil, Tony Casillas Opens Up & Remembering Don Nelson | Just Wondering with Norm

On today's episode of Just Wondering, we'll begin by touching on a couple of stories that we had last week, but that have updates for you. Next, a far reaching and often emotional interview with former star cowboy defensive lineman Tony Casillas, and then losing a really good friend. And now a word from our title sponsor. Eying retirement? We aim to turn your nest egg into a paycheck with half the amount you've been led to believe. Fluent Financial combines in house portfolio design risk management with income generating investments designed to aid your financial independence. Our goal is to develop an effective portfolio strategy to help you retire sooner and have a better lifestyle. Fluent Financial can also implement a program that allows business owners to install a cash balance plan, which may potentially reduce income tax payments. You've worked hard to become successful. Let us help develop an effective portfolio strategy that works for you. Learn more today about Fluent Financial. Retire sooner, better lifestyle. For more information or to schedule a meeting, visit fluentfinancial.com or call (972) 852-4800. New developments in the ongoing drama of the Cowboys left tackle job. All off season, the Cowboys assured everyone there would be open competition for the starting left tackle job. In the two years since he was the club's first round pick, Tyler Guyton has done little to impress. Plus, he missed starting 13 of the club's 34 games over those two years. Nate Thomas and to some degree, rookie fourth round pick Drew Shelton would be given chances in training camp to unseat Guyton for the left tackle job. At least that was the story. Well, less than a week into camp, head coach Brian Schottenheimer made the decision. The job was guidance, except that, well, a couple of days later, the coach said the job was, well, still not decided. He said that what he meant was that Nate Thomas had better start playing better if he wanted to compete with Guyton for the left tackle job. There's apparently no thinking to slide Tyler Smith from his left guard position out to left tackle because, well, I think Tyler Smith has made it plain. He doesn't wanna be yanked around this season from tackle to guard. And if he's gonna play left tackle, he expects to be paid like a left tackle, which would be about $5,000,000 a year more, an amount I don't think the Cowboys are excited to add to Smith's already $24,000,000 a year contract. So the whole thing, guidance in competition guidance got the job, wait a minute, he doesn't have the job. The club look a little silly. But you know what? It does seem certain that Guyton is going to be the starting left tackle on this team. So starting at this very moment, Cowboy fans begin crossing your fingers. And next, last week, we discussed the Protect College Sports Act. All these bills going through Congress have wonderful names to them. This is a bill that Congress is working on to apparently set guardrails as to how much money could be spent on college athletics in any given year. Now, Congress is the same body that can't put much in the way of guardrails on what they're spending in America these days. But that's another subject. So the government's gonna get into this deal of protecting college sports from itself. Well, the Big Ten, the SEC originally objected to some things, but you know what? A couple of weeks ago, they signed on the Big 10 in the SEC. Well, they'd gotten some of the concessions they wanted that made the bill a lot more palatable them. So they signed on. So then the bill would go to the Senate committee who would vote to send it to the Senate floor, and the Senate would vote to pass it on and move it to within that far of being a bill in The United States, a past bill, except for one thing. When it got to the Senate committee, two senators from SEC states, by the way, Missouri and Alabama, had their own objections to the Protect College Sports Act, and they held up passage of the bill from committee. And then, of course, the senate had to take its five weeks vacation. Don't we all get five weeks vacation? How does this country run with the senate? Well, that's another topic too. But they'll be back in mid September, and maybe then we'll all figure out a way to protect college sports. What do you want from your favorite restaurant? Fantastic personal service, a cheery, welcoming, spotless atmosphere, and of course, great food. The primest of beef, Wagyu, and lamb, incredibly fresh seafood, lobster, salmon, shrimp, hall of fame food from a hall of fame restaurant, Two locations of Bob's Steak and Chop House, the original Bob's on Lemon Avenue, and the gorgeous new Bob's at Craig Ranch McKinney. Do you bet on football? I'm Norm Hitskas, and I've been handicapping sports for the last five decades, and what an incredible last two years we've had picking games. For all of our college and pro football selections, plus the NCAA basketball tournament, we've posted a wonderful five twenty seven winners and four thirty four losers. After subtracting the juice. If you're a $200 a game player, that's a tidy profit of right at $10,000. And unlike those big betting services, we don't cost an arm and a leg. $200. That's it. $200 for the entire package of football and basketball picks. Email right to you every week. Sign up by clicking on the link below, and let's have another solid profitable year. My wife Mary is the co creator of Full Moon Healing Balm, And I guess I'm the reason this terrific cream was developed. A few years ago, I began getting these huge, ugly blood blotches just beneath the skin of my arms and hands. The condition's called senile purpura. And no, you don't have to be senile to experience this embarrassment. It happens as you age. And then to cover it up, we begin wearing long sleeves, even when it's hot. It took two years working with a New Jersey lab to refine the all natural ingredients of full moon healing. Gently massage a very small amount into the skin, and within a day, the blotches begin to fade. See now, purpura usually takes weeks to disappear. But this bomb cuts the timeline to about a week. And ordering's so easy. Just go to the website, fullmoonhealingco.com. Tony Casillas is one of the most decorated defensive linemen of all time in football. He was a star at Oklahoma, a national championship winning Oklahoma team in 1985. That same year, he was an all American, the UPI lineman of the year, the Lombardi trophy given the best lineman in college football. He graduated from Oklahoma with degree in public relations, was an academic All American, by the way, and was the college defensive player of the decade in the nineteen eighties. Then on to the NFL, a second round draft choice in Atlanta. Five years later, to Dallas. There's a bit of a story there we'll get into. And then a starting defensive tackle on back to back Cowboys Super Bowl champions. Tony spent twelve years in the league finishing his career with Dallas in 1997. He's in the Oklahoma Hall of Fame, the College Football Hall of Fame. And Tony, I could go on and on, but it's time we started talking. Well, first of all, Norm, I appreciate it. It's an honor to always, be able to, you know, talk talk with you and and and be on your show. And and I I, you know, I I say this wholeheartedly when, when people talk to you, they become a lot smarter when it comes to understanding sports, whether it's horse racing, whether it's life. And, I really appreciate you having me on, brother. It it means a lot. Thanks, buddy. Thank you, Tony. When you left here three decades ago, left here as a player, could you ever imagine that in the three decades since the Cowboys would never even play in an NFC championship game? No. And then you look at what all the other teams have done in NFC East, especially the, you know, the Eagles. No. I and and it kinda tips your hat how old you are when you start talking about, you know, back in, you know, thirty years ago since the Cowboys have been in NFC championship. We we all know the narrative, but, you know, it still it still resonates. It still, it is a huge, huge legacy to be part of those nineties teams. But, you know, I always the the the ongoing joke for me is that, you know, people say, well, what do you sir, what do you call a a Dallas Cowboys with a Super Bowl ring? I'm like, what? And they said, ancient. So so but we're kind of a bulk of the jokes, but but that's something we'll always have to the resume, as you mentioned, and be part of those games of the nineties were insurmountable. It's just it's pretty vivid when you look back at it. I mean, start reflecting on and start talking about it because it does bring back so many so many great memories. You played for two of the most storied and successful coaches in the history of football. Let's start with Barry Switzer. Now, Barry can come off at times as being, I mean this honestly as a company. He came off at times as being a little goofy, but his record is incredible. What made him such a good coach? Well, I think his transparency really made him a great coach because I think I think the media you know, the the there was not much speculation. You know, coach Switzer is gonna basically tell you how it is, and there's not really anything to, you know, to speculate what he may be thinking. And I think as a media person, that's kinda what you wanna have. But I wouldn't say goofy. I would say just a just a guy beyond, being a coach, the life after football, being able to have him as a loyal friend, someone you can reach out to, someone that, it shows up for you, long after you play the game of football. And it's amazing, Norma, how many players, former players, not just former players, but people that have this connection and and talk to Koswitzer because he's so charismatic. He's he's right to the point. And I think people appreciate that. And I do. The authenticity of of him as a as a person in general, is, you can't find that. And I think that's what makes him so unique as a as a as a person, not only a coach, because he's able to recruit and obviously just be able to coach. But you mentioned that his record speaks for itself that he's had a ton of success. And again, I just can't reiterate what he's done off the field, whether it's charity, whether it's, you know, players showing up for players and being there for you in hard times and good times. I mean, there's not too many people I can think of that that I know, especially of his character and especially of his his persona that would be there for you at a drop of a hat. Tony, you then won two Super Bowls starting at defensive tackle for Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy has a bit of an unusual reputation also as a coach. Tell us what it was like playing for Jimmy Johnson. Well, it's it's two different. When you mentioned Barry, you mentioned Jimmy, totally different philosophies. You know, at times, Jimmy was crazy as far as the way he motivated people and players. And you look back, you know, like, how did I survive that? That was, you know, that was a form of abuse, but not in, you you look at modern day football and you look at what we went through and really that's kind of what we needed as a group and was able his way of just motivating through example, through using different scenarios. I mean, the guy had a psychology degree and he definitely had a master's in doctor's in that because he was a doctor degree in that because he was able to execute that. And I just said, I look back at all the different stories and everything that he did. And, You know, I I owe a lot to coach Johnson. He saved my football life. You know, I was in Atlanta for two years. You know, I was a second player picking the draft behind Bo Jackson and came from a program like Oklahoma and then going to at the time, it was more like the Cleveland Browns in the NFL, and that was Atlanta falcons. So, you know, when I was traded, I got the call from him. I knew Jimmy when he was at Oklahoma State. You know, I had a all the staff that was at Oklahoma and Miami, Dave Wanstadt, the Butch Davis, who's Larry Coker. I mean, he was an honor to be head coach at Miami. So you had all these different nucleus of coaches you had, but the way he his tactics as far as motivating and setting an example. And, you know, I always say this, you know, those teams, he he we needed a a strong leader because as we know that, you know, you've seen all the stories, you've seen the documentary, that's, you know, that's that's truth. But he was able to delegate and to be able to work with different personalities on that team and really just kind of use his way of, motivating, not through fear, but just being uncomfortable, with your success. And I think that that's really just kind of made us, humble. And again, you know, the story's about not feeding us on the way home from a loss to Washington. Mean, it was great. Hey, we're having this open bar on the way home after a win, but I'll tell you what, If you lost a game, you better keep your head down and not be on coach Johnson's vision. I mean, you've been on the plane. You just you start switching that lift, and you're like, okay. I'm just gonna bow my head until I'm asleep, or I don't wanna make eye contact. Because if you made eye contact, you just kinda be like that. He was like, sins your soul. Tony, he was famous for playing mind games with people. Did he play any with you? You know, he, he did. I think for me, you know, I was kind of those guys that I, you know, when I, when I came to from Atlanta to Dallas, I mean, it was just this different energy norm because, know, I came from a you know, the the falcons where it's just totally, just the bottom line was to make money as an organization, and they really didn't have the brand or the the the dynasty or the cowboys, you know, Atlanta. So, you know, I think the the the thing that really, got to me when when he may be inactive because for some reason, he just felt like against Washington. And I was just, you know, that really, you know, hurt, you know, deep inside. I'm like, well, what are you doing? You know? And, you know, what did I do? And we had so much depth on that defensive line as you go back of all the great players we had. So I think that that to me at that point, it I didn't handle it the right way. I mean, I let my emotions know be known to coach Johnson and the staff, but, yeah, it it worked out for me. I mean, I obviously, the next week, I was, part of the rotation and starting. But again, the success, I think the measure of success that you have in a coach and his philosophy, that's what really adds up. I mean, it's the end result and buying into what his decisions are. And, you know, I think that that was the only time that I really just second guessed Coach Johnson because I was I felt like that I was a player that fit in the system and was a very heavy contributor. But that one stopped. That one stopped whenever he made me an act. You know, Tony, now the world, America is is much more understanding of what we call, and that can cover an enormous number of situations, mental health difficulties. But you encountered some of those in the eighties. Tell us the challenges you faced at that period. Well, Norm, I think that, you know, now, as you look at, I mean, I was one of those guys that had a great amount of anxiety. Back then, they didn't really diagnose it as anxiety. You just suck it up and don't deal with it. Football players, they're Teflon. You know, they don't have fillings. They don't feel they don't look at things differently. We're gladiators. And so in the eighties, it was tough. You know, when I went to when I when I left to go to Oklahoma, I mean, my first year, there was a lot of adversity. I got injured and really just decided that, you know, football wasn't for me. And so I actually went back home and this really didn't have the toughness to get through the the adversity of of being away from home, in a system and and you're being recruited as a five star football player and all of a sudden you're just you get there and you're like, there's other five star players amid Oklahoma and you just join the crowd. And so I think there was a amount of, frustration, amount of, you know, how I fit in. Was this for me? And so I took kind of the, the kind of the short road and, and, you know, that's become my anxiety. And so I went back to Tulsa and then, you know, here comes coach Switzer calling me and, and saying, you know, I need you to come back. I believe in you. I was injured at the time. And I was, you know, I was just, you know, it was a dark place, you know, I wasn't, I just didn't really feel like that, you know, college football was for me. So he basically said, Hey, I want you to come here and be the best Mexican I ever coached. I mean, that was his introduction if you talk about Like, okay, well, growing up in Oklahoma wasn't really cool being brown in Oklahoma. But I'll take that as a compliment from you, Coach Switzer. So I remember taking a Greyhound bus with me and my best friend, who's still my long time best friend. Took a bus back and had one bag, and Bobby Witt picked me up at the bus station and gave me a ride back because he's a baseball player at Oklahoma at the time. And so, you know, the rest is history. I mean, wasn't, it was still challenges after that. But, you know, I just realized that I was this person that had anxiety, that really just, at times when, you know, there was doubt, that you really didn't know how to funnel that and channel those emotions. And so finally, I just kind of figured it out that, you know, that's part of it. But we didn't talk about mental health back then, Norm. We didn't in the eighties and the nineties, it's just you're weak or you're just, you know, you're crazy or, you know, just goofy or whatever it may give, whatever the terminology was. And so, you know, as a football player, you don't want to hear that because you're this, like I said, this Teflon person and you want to let those things bounce off you. But ultimately, you had to deal with a different way and just kind of get through it and realize on that mental toughness, if you will, to lean on. But certainly it wasn't talked about like it is now, and I think that's the best thing that, you know, you have that Dak Prescott, have these players have mental health awareness month, they talk about those things because those things needed to be talked about now. Some things you shouldn't bury, you have to deal with it. And if you share, it may help someone else is dealing with the same thing. You played more than a decade and a half in defensive lines at Oklahoma and and the NFL. We are now finding out more and more year by year of the kind of toll football can take on your body. Are you worried about the what the game might have done to you long term? Yeah. I think I've I've worry about it a lot. And and I I know certainly through the concussive protocol, of not having that back in when we're when we were in my era, I I don't know how many times I had my bell rung and the way you just the the way the protocols, you know, count to 10 backwards. Here's the president of The United States. Here's the smelling salt. He's fine. And you're back on the field because that's kinda the way you dealt with it. And looking at back at that and looking at and and obviously physically in the you know, you're you look at your body and, you know, the residual effects of it as you get older. It's real. I mean, it's real. I I see guys that are a lot worse shape than I am. I think one thing that I really try to is more of a preventive care, and that's to work out, keep my mind busy. I think that that's been a really good remedy for me to be active and to be able to be in the present when it comes to that. And, you know, I could use that as an excuse, but I really just, you know, I live in the I live with the philosophy of trying to rewind the clock, if you will, and not really understanding what football does to your body. But no doubt about it. If any player says that, you played as long as I have or did and say that they have no residual effects of playing the game of football. That's just, you know, that's just not that's not true because you live with it every day. And I think, Norm, you just really you just, your pain threshold is different than other people. And, what my pain level may be to the normal person, may be untalable. But for me, I just learned to deal with it and to to, you know, do different things, to to treat it, to, you know, to to stay active, to do things. I mean, I see you going on vacations all over the world. I mean, who doesn't wanna be like Norm, you far as seeing some of the places you travel. So, understandably, that's kind of the way you you have to live your life and and really not get to a point where you just let yourself go because, unfortunately, there's a lot of guys, and you know this, that have played. And either they're whether they're twenty five years out, whether they're ten years out, I mean, they forget that they were an athlete. And, you know, to me, that really is, perplexing because, you know, some guys may have a physical issue where they can't do things and work out and take care of themselves. But it really is not an excuse. And I and I try to be an advocate of that. I try to, you know, to to be a brother to those type you know, my my I mean, my fallen football players. I mean, I've had several player you know, the teammates and players throughout the NFL that are no longer here. And, you know, certainly, the concussion issue, the CTE and everything, that bothers me. That's something that you think about, and and it's really something you just try to prevent and just kinda live with it. You know, speak you used the word advocate, and and you've you've joined the fight against homelessness. We each have a heart for that. I was astounded. I'll bet you were too, to find that there are over 300,000 Texans, not Americans, Texans who between the ages of 18 and 24 will encounter homelessness. That's almost unbelievable in America. It really is, and I think once since I've gotten involved, I know you've been involved. I know you're with Austin City. You've done a lot of being an advocate for those types of organizations and getting involved with Lisa Marshall and fighting homelessness and the statistics. We're talking about young kids 18 to 24 and try to get them in an environment and get them ready to be able to be introduced to the world, to give them a job. And I think that that's the path that people don't understand. And every time I see someone on the street, I just kinda wonder. You know? It's like, how did they get there? Yes. But I think the most important thing, Norm, is is the young the 18 to 24 and, you know, the statistics for them to, you know, to survive and move on and maybe get a, you know, a college degree. And more importantly, have a place to to call home and be able to, you know, have a hot meal, have a bed to sleep in when it's a 106 degrees outside, you know, thinking it's a you know, these kids or whatever their situation and give them an opportunity. And I think that this the organization has done a great job with that and being able to create housing. You know, the percentages are very, very low for them to progress and move on. I think that's the awareness thing, Norm, as you know, has been able to see that through. And it's a great organization. It takes a lot of volunteers and you're involved, you know, I've been involved and to see people and see the stories of the kids that have overcome a lot of adversity and where they are now, that's when they're making an impact. And that's really what you want to see and be part of. And I just try to do as much as I can to be just a small part of it, to be a healthy organization and create awareness. Tony and I will be part of a big pickleball tournament, March 7 at Brookhaven. And we'd love for you to join up and join the fight against homelessness and just go to this website, fightinghomelessness.org, fightinghomelessness.org and join Tony and I at Brookhaven. Tony, did not know whether to ask you a question or two about this today. But we think of athletes, star athletes, and we think of untroubled lives. And that is so far from the truth. Because athletes encounter really difficult situations all the time. Tony, if, if you would, tell us about the passing of your wife just a few months back. Well, Norm, I really want to, you know, come on air and and really just thank people that, you know, lost my wife unexpectedly about five months ago. And more importantly, I wanna thank everyone for their thoughts and prayers and, you know, your support for you and your your wife. And, you know, I I never you know, being a tough football player, and experiencing injuries and having to go through training camp and playing with a broken bone. That's pain. But losing someone that you've been your soulmate for thirty one years, it's hard to fathom and totally unexpected. And to lose your best friend, your soulmate, grandmother, father, mother, your children. It's just, it affects so many layers. I've learned to the grief and be able to grieve. It's like an open wound. Every day is just trying to kind of close it just a little bit where it's not hemorrhaging. It's difficult. You always want to be this tough guy. You always want to be someone that you know, doesn't cry or doesn't feel but that's, you know, obviously, doesn't happen in something like this because, you know, the gravity is something like that. Just someone being here perfectly healthy, And then an hour later, they're gone. It's just, you know, it's just something that's a nightmare. You know, when I you know, my wife is a fighter. She was a breast cancer survivor. Healthy. And And to wake up an hour later and they're gone, and to wholly change your life and out of body experience and thinking, Is this really happening? Your question is, Why? But now I'm moving through this and the grieving and having to talk, reading books and talking to other people going through therapy. One, this is like I said, it closes. And it just seems like 50% of the time, you you want to live in the present, but 50% of the time, you're sad. You know? And that's just part of the process. And and so I just you know, I I the thing I would say is that the tears and everything that you go through, it's not weakness. It's the death of the love you have for someone. And I sure had a lot of love for her. She was a basic person. And like I said, I'm just grateful for having her presence. You know, the people that have called me and that supported that celebrates life. I mean, you can't just do it. You know, my family, my kids, I mean, they've been strong through this. We've been together and been able to navigate through this. But, you know, it takes time, you know? And and, you know, there's a lot to be said for waking up the next morning and saying, you know, thank you for one for this day because, honestly, it changes your whole mentality. It changes your, like, your perspective of of, you know, the things that bother you. And, you know, I don't say this just because I'm 62 or I'm taking telling this for everyone. My son, you know, they feel the same way. You know, those little things that you worry about, you know, the chase and everything that you're trying to accomplishment, all of a sudden, man, they just don't they don't mean as much. Yeah. Tony, you asked that question why. Stash that question. Keep it with you for the rest of your life and make that the first question you ask God when you see him. Why? Well said. Well said. God bless you, my friend. Thank you, Norm. I've always always enjoyed talking to you, and it's just an honor to talk with you and be on your show. I mean, you're just you're a staple of the media, and you've got so much knowledge and so much entertainment. And, again, when people talk to you, they come away a lot smarter, knowledgeable about not only sports, horse racing, whatever it is. It seems like you have a way to put things in perspective, and I really appreciate that, my friend. Know that you're loved. Thank you, Bye, Tony. Thank you for the time so much. Yes, sir. Stolen Water Media is making a move. After two plus years, it's time to change and keep up with our growth. You can continue to view all eight of our podcasts on our Patreon pages. But now you can get all episodes at www.stolenwatermedia.com. This is a developing story, but you can begin by watching and listening right now at www.stolenwatermedia.com. Continue to find all audio wherever you find your favorite podcasts, and some you may not have heard of, but I think will enjoy. Are you just wondering where your next spectacular vacation will be? Relax. Feel the sun on your body. Let your cares melt away at the all inclusive Cerenian Bay Resort in Southern Belize. It's literally built right on the sand. The ocean, your ocean is just a few barefoot steps away. Laid back luxury, terrific food, a swim up bar, a spa, air conditioned gym, unimaginable service, fishing, snorkeling in gorgeous turquoise waters. Do you want relaxation or do you need adventure? You choose at Ceridian Bay. Mary and I have been there three times and this summer will be number four. Take a cozy bungalow for two or bring the whole family to villas that can accommodate up to 14. Cerenian Bay dot com, sirenian. The sand and the sea are just waiting for you to get here. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, probably thousands of people lost a really good friend on Sunday, when former Mavs head coach Don Nelson passed away in Hawaii at the age of 86. I was one of those hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and maybe thousands of people. Deli stood about six six, weighed two twenty, two thirty, but he was larger than life in a lot of different ways. He loved to laugh, and he loved to make people laugh, which he did in nearly fifty years in the NBA as a player and coach. He was here for seven years as a Mavericks coach, and for most of those. He was a regular guest on my morning sports talk show every Thursday. Every Thursday for the six plus months of the season, Nelly was there as a guest. One year, the Mavericks were looking to add a wing shooter to their team, and it was right at the trade deadline. And that morning, Nelly was a guest in the evening before a guy named Tracy Murray had been traded. So I asked Nelly if if the club had been interested in Tracy Murray, who was a wing shooter. And Nelly said, Nah, he's a pain in the ass. And then he paused and he said, Should I have said that? I think it was too late, Nelly. Nelly and his son, Donnie, focused on a gangly German teenager Dirk Nowitzky believing he'd turn into a star. By the way, Nelly also traded for Steve Nash, and at Golden State, he pushed for them to draft Steph Curry. Early one game, Dirk, who was really struggling here for his first year plus early one game that second season, Dirk had been throwing more grenades. He'd been shooting terribly for a long time. And Nelly called time out in the game and as everybody trooped back to the bench and gather around and huddle, Nelly waited for everybody to get there. And he looked at Dirk and said, What's up with your shot? And people started laughing. And it broke the tension. And they're shooting slump, and they're also He took over in 1997 for the fire Jim Clemens. The Mavericks at that point had been the worst pro franchise on the face of this planet. I don't know about the others, but this planet. They'd had five head coaches in five years, Richie Adebato, Gar Heard, Dick Mata, Quinn Buckner and Jim Clemens. Their average record for the five years before Nelly arrived was twenty two and sixty, which by the way was exactly the record Nelly coached in his first season. And the year two started slowly also, but Nelly had found some good players. He added Nash and he added Dirk, and they just weren't quite figuring it out yet. They were still children, just Lee. So we met for lunch earlier that season, a place called The Pointe, a burger joint on Lovers Lane in Greenville. And as we were talking, Nelly said he'd figured out just how long it would be before he was going to be fired. December 28. He had the date circled in his calendar. He told me December 28. If he could just make it to December 28, the schedule eased up some and he thought the kids would start playing better. Well, he made it to December 28. And that team that had started nine wins and 23 losses, then finished the last 50 games at thirty one and nineteen. And the race was on for the Mavericks. Each of the next five seasons, they'd win at least 52 games until Nulli was fired by Mark Cuban in a dispute over how to run the basketball team, And that was the golden rule. The man who had the gold made the rule. Big Nelly had friends everywhere. He had some of the world's most high profile people in his circle. His giant legendary poker games include Willie Nelson, Woody Harrelson, the actor Owen Wilson, and lots of other just regular people. One of whom Nelly told me was named Big Sam. I never met Big Sam, but I often wondered what Big Sam did for business. Nelly was a brilliant innovator as a coach and brilliant in many ways. He was on a Celtics team that won five world championships. And Nelly took some of the money he earned in those years and started buying property on Maui, Hawaii. One year I visited Nelly in Maui, and he picked me up at the airport as old pickup truck with two dogs in the front seat. Nelly always had dogs around. He would own six of them or seven of them or eight of them or nine of them at a time. I don't think even Nelly could take take take count. And he would then take me to a tour of all of his properties in Maui. He made one of them into a beautiful wedding chapel and wedding reception site. He had places all over Maui. And when the fires struck Maui, Nelly invited those left homeless to come stay in some of his properties. And along about eight or ten years ago, he also started growing his own brand of marijuana on the side, on some of these properties, and he called it Nelly Kush. Honestly, I can't believe Don Nelson is gone. How could a man who had such enormous life in him no longer be alive? And now a word from our title sponsor. Today's episode has been brought to you by Fluent Financial, retire earlier, live better. And by Bob's Steak and Chophouse on Lemon in Dallas and in Craig Ranch in McKinney. Bob's, a Dallas tradition for more than thirty years. If you've enjoyed just wondering, please hit follow and a fresh new episode will land in your mailbox early every Monday, Wednesday and Friday morning. Should you know a sports fan who might like our work, please share our contact information with that person. Thanks for listening to today's episode of Just Wondering. I'm Norm Hitskas, and know that every day I'll be just wondering about something. And I'm Mary Hitschkes, and I'll just be wondering too. This is a Stolen Water Media production.