Meet Your Heroes: Stewart Copeland & the Art of Not Being Let Down | Engel Angle

Well, that's swimsuit season. I've got the body for it. Damn it. I don't have the suit. Mac Engel, Fort Worth Star Telegram, Angle Angle podcast here on the Sunset Lounge via Stolen Water Media. Thanks for joining me as always. Happy summer. It is the end of May. I'm never ready for June. I don't know about you all. June always sort of catches me off guard, especially when you have a kid. Summer really changes when you become a parent, especially when the kid is younger and they need you to drive because summer just never ends. You're really excited at the beginning of it, and then you're like, oh my god. I've gotta fill this kid's schedule up with something. So you become an Uber Lyft cab driver on steroids, And that was something that I wasn't prepared for. There's so many parts to this that nobody adequately prepares you for. No book, no parenting class, no counselor, no therapy, nothing. Nothing prepares you adequately for these changes that come around. And one of them was for a long time was, oh my God, how was summer this long? Whereas when you were a kid, summer was the best and then become a parent, you're like, oh my God, this is an eternity. When does school start? Well, I'm out of that. So now I know what to do with myself come June. And here we are. Something happened in the last couple of weeks that I thought was worth talking about and sharing. And that is I had the opportunity to meet a hero. The saying goes, don't ever meet your heroes because, and this is not part of the saying, you will soon learn that your hero is human. And oftentimes, inevitably, because you put them on a pedestal that they themselves did not ask for, but certainly benefited from, they will show you who they are. And sometimes you will see them in not a flattering light and will forever change the way you view that person and their work. So what I learned, especially in this job, was more often than not, it was best to really lower your expectations, have no expectations, or avoid meeting them at all. I am sure if you sit there and think about it, you at some point or another in your life have had moments where you had a chance to meet your hero or two or three. Somebody you saw on the big screen, somebody you saw on television, somebody that you looked up to. And then that chance opportunity presented itself where you got to be in front of them. And you said, I'm a big fan. Can I have your autograph? Or can I get a picture or whatever? And maybe they do, maybe they don't. Maybe they're having a good day. Maybe they're having a bad day. Maybe they're busy. Maybe they gotta go. Maybe if they are in that place in their life, or like, I just gotta say no. And something that I have been afforded in this job is to see exactly the pressures and the demands and the asks that exist for people in the public spotlight. Because every phone call, everything is, hey, can you? Hey, I need you too. Everybody's coming for their time. Everybody's coming for something from them, including you. Even though your fandom is a reason in part why they are where they are and are afforded the lifestyle that they've become accustomed to. They should sit there and make time for you. And I have heard entertainers say, I will always give time to a fan. Always. Because without them, I'm not where I am today. Not everybody has embraced that for for a variety of reasons. But something that happened in the last couple of weeks was I had an opportunity to meet my hero. Somebody that I had looked up to since I was in grade school and thought, man, this guy's the coolest. This guy's the best. He's awesome. And I'm talking, of course, about Stewart Copeland. Now if you are a fan of rock and roll music, you immediately know the name Stewart Copeland. Stewart Copeland is in his seventies now, and he is founding member of what was or still remains my favorite band, the police. Stuart Copeland was the drummer. His good friend Andy Summers was on guitar. And, of course, he found a guy named Sting who went on to become globally famous because he's great and people love him. And I love the police. And when I was in grade school, the police were at their highest of heights. And they broke up when I was in the fifth grade. And I told myself, if I ever had a chance to see them, if they ever get back together, I'm gonna go anywhere and go see the police. Anywhere. Well, sure enough, my my late oldest brother, Frank, he was he was the person who introduced me to that band. And he assured me that after they broke up, they would never get back together again. Ever. So in 2006 or 02/07, sure enough, Sting recognized, you know what? I can make a lot of money on this. So let's get the band back together. And sure enough, he reunited with Stewart Copeland and Andy Summers to go on a global tour that turned out to be at the time, the single most profitable tour ever. And I went and saw him. I flew up to Philadelphia and I saw him one night with my brother David, and we had a great time. And then they continued on their tour, I caught him again in Dallas, and I loved it. And I was so happy. And it was one of those experiences, both of them, where I just left so ecstatic that I finally got to see my band perform. They were still they were in their fifties back then. They were still really good. And since then, they broke up and they've decided to they were better apart than together. Well, all three of them have gone on to do very well individually, and certainly Stewart Copeland has in his own way. And he is coming to Dallas on June 1112 where he will be appearing at the Kessler Theater. You can find that Kessler Theater in Dallas, June 1112, where he will be appearing for a q and a sit down and basically a chance to talk about his career with videos and a moderator in front of an audience. It's part of a I don't think you can really call it a tour, but a night where he says, or the title is, have I said too much? And when I saw this was happening, I thought, I wonder if I can get him. So I reached out to this person and this person, and eventually I found his, assistant. And I asked, could I do an interview with him for the Fort Worth star telegram? I said, yes, absolutely. Now I have not shared that interview yet because I'm still about a week out, before typically promoters, when you do these kinds of interviews, prefer that you give it a little bit of a, some time before before the event so people can read about it and see it and buy tickets. So I haven't posted that interview yet, but I am going to share a part of this and why meeting Stuart Copeland virtually turned out to be such a fun experience. Because I can tell you this, having met my previous heroes, it doesn't always work out that way. Now I don't wanna throw anybody under the bus, but I wanna kinda give you some, oh, just sort of pulled back the curtain a little bit of what these interviews and what these relationships between media members and athletes, entertainers, they're all under the umbrella of entertainers, How that really goes. I spoke at a school school group one time and it was high school students. And one of the high school students says, what what's such and such like? And I think that person thought I was that person's friend. No, I'm not their friend. I can have a friendly relationship with that person. And over time, if you've covered that person enough, whomever it is, then yes, that relationship can become friendly. You might even become, you know, somebody you might talk to about personal things. But for the most part, when people like me in these jobs are covering entertainers or athletes or whatever else, it is a professional transactional relationship. I am part of a system that covers these people and they give me their time in exchange for publicity, marketing, advertising. And in parts of that, there can be really hardcore pieces of journalism that can exist within those confines. But by and large, my job, big part of my job exists to serve as, publicity, which is fine. It's not something they talk about in journalism courses, especially when it comes to covering entertainment and athletes, but that's the reality of it. That's perfectly fine. I've talked about it here before. And when I was younger, twenty five, thirty years ago, I would meet some of these people who were my heroes when I was a kid. When I was, you know, when you're in those formative sort of tween and teen years, when you look up to these people and you see them and they're awesome, and you buy this shirt, you buy the hat, you buy the album, you buy all that stuff, and you really support them. And then at some point, because of my job, I've met them and I've talked to them. And sometimes it's great. And sometimes it is not. Now back in the nineteen eighties, as a kid who grew up in the Midwest, I was an enormous fan of the Cincinnati reds. Huge fan of the Cincinnati reds. And specifically one player, a guy named Eric Davis. I loved Eric Davis. I loved Eric Davis. To obscene levels, I loved Eric Davis. So fast forward from the late eighties, early nineties to 2001, and I am covering major league baseball and I'm in the San Francisco giants clubhouse in Scottsdale, Arizona. And at the time, Eric Davis was in the final years of his career and he was, he was in his lattice locker stall. And I thought, I'll be damned. There he is. Now, by that point, I had done just enough of professional sports where I had been around some of these guys to realize, yeah, you're not asking for autographs. You're not asking for pictures, But there is a way, which I failed to recognize in that moment. There is a way to use your fandom to sort of open the door, to sort of make the interviewee a little more comfortable and willing to sit there and talk to you, especially if they don't want to. Now there is a line that can be crossed. I have seen this a lot, especially in the entertainment media where the interviewer just falls over themselves, gushing, telling that person how great they are, talking about how amazing they are. And that is a big part of entertainment media interviews. Just look at it sometimes and how the interviewer is just, they don't have the words because they're just so starstruck to be around this person and they fall over everything that they say or do and they're giggling and laughing and bubbling and it's just amazing. You're great. You're great. This project's amazing. Your career's fantastic. And it gets a little ridiculous. But there is a line that you can stay under while being respectful and telling that person, I'm a big fan of your work. So this was my first real opportunity to do that, to run into somebody that I grew up watching and just idolizing. And I go up and introduce myself and right away I know he doesn't want to talk to me. And so I get a couple of questions or two and he's kind of just surly and not mean, but just kind of surly and the body language, he's sitting there slumped and he doesn't really want to do it. And I said, You know Eric, at the very end, I said, You know Eric, I grew up in Indianapolis. I was born in Cincinnati, and there was nobody who was a bigger fan of Eric Davis than me. In fact, this is a true story. I took a pair of clippers and I had e 44 shaved into the back of my head. I really did that. And he stood up and he said, you did? I said, yeah, man. I said, there was nobody who's a bigger fan of Eric Davis than I was. And he turned and he and he pushes my head to this. He said, you grew it out there. I see. I said, yeah, I grew it out. And his mood completely changed. It completely changed to the point where I was like, why didn't I say this at the top? And maybe his mood to me would have been a little bit different. And now did did it change my impression of Eric Davis? Did it change my fandom and appreciation for what a great player he was? No. It did not. Because something I learned is these guys, like I said before, have a lot of people coming at them. A lot. And you just never know what mood they're gonna be in. Now as a side note to that story, I happened to be in the clubhouse that day when I see four gentlemen, older gentlemen playing cards in the middle of the San Francisco Giants clubhouse. And one of them is Willie Mays. And at the time Willie's got half glasses and he's sitting up on his forehead and he's leaning back. And I'm like, wow, I can't believe that's Willie Mays. And kind of a big stomach. And Barry Bonds is over there. Now everybody knew not to talk to Barry Bonds. Barry Bonds hated the media. He's certainly not going to talk to somebody like me he doesn't know. But Barry Bonds is in there. And I think at the time, maybe his father, Bobby Bonds, in there as well. But Willie Mays is there. And this is before spring training game. Willie asks Barry, are you playing today? And Barry says no. Willie Mays proceeds to motherfuck and dog cuss Barry Bonds for about five minutes straight, just giving him an earful of shit. Yeah. Can't believe you're doing this. Are you fucking kidding me? Just burying Barry Bonds in front of the entire clubhouse. Willie Mays is probably the only person in the world who could have done that to Barry Bonds. I don't think I've ever shared that story, but I loved it because I'm watching and I'm like, because he's Willie Mays and he can do whatever he wants. So that was my first year covering big league baseball. And in that time, I had an opportunity to meet a lot of other people, heroes of mine. Not heroes, but people I looked up to, people I knew, people who were famous. And one of the rules that every press credential has on its back is no autographs. This was before cell phones, and you could take pictures and stuff and people use that now for for online work. It's it's nothing. But back then, you obviously wouldn't have done it. But the no autograph thing is is a very serious thing and everybody follows it. So fast forward now, it's May, and I'm in Comiskey Park in Chicago. It was called Comiskey Park back then. And, god, it was a cold day. Was one of these sunny days, and it was so cold. And I'm sitting there in the White Sox dugout by myself. And I see this is before the game, two or three hours before a rangers game on a Sunday. And there is Ernie Banks, a legendary Chicago cub, hall of famer. Let's play to Ernie Banks. I'm like, wow. And I'm thinking to myself, what can I think of to talk to him for? That's Ernie Banks. I got to think of something. So I had an idea and I go up and I introduce myself. He could not have been any nicer. He could not have been any more engaging. He could not have been any more polite. He could not have been any more sweet. He could not have been funnier. And I sat there next to Ernie Banks for about ten to fifteen minutes just talking. Wow. I can't believe this. This is kinda neat. It's Ernie Banks. Couldn't have been any nicer. He knew my name. Most people don't do that. And if they do, they get it wrong. And I'm like, wow. I said, Mr. Banks, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate this. I gotta go. Said, hang on. Hang on, young man. Hang on. He he waves this guy to come over to him, and he hands him a tray of new, perfectly white major league baseballs. Like, what are you doing there? And he says, hang on for a second. And I said, mister Banks, I can't do that. He said, no. No. No. No. Hang on. Hang just for a second. I said, mister Banks, can't do that. He said, no. You're fine. You're fine. Here. Just get here. What do you want me to say? And I couldn't believe it. Even now, I'm I couldn't believe it. I'm like, I don't know. He said, do you spell your name? I said, MAC. So he writes on a baseball. I got over there and says, to Mac, get married soon. Mr. Cub, Ernie Banks. They signed another one for me, which I sent to my brother, David in Philadelphia. I don't know if he still has that. And I thought, oh, I'm gonna get in a of trouble. I'm gonna a lot of trouble. What am I gonna do with this? What am I gonna do with this? What am I gonna do with this? So I shoved them in my, I think, my jeans. I may have had a jacket on at that point. And then I went to the gift store and I said, can I get a bag, please? I was so paranoid about getting caught. So those experiences were very different. Meeting Eric Davis, meeting Ernie Banks. And then as it went on and on, I kept meeting other people and I recognized, you know, they're just guys. They're just people. And a lot of it depends on what time of day are you catching them. Are they in a good mood? Are they in a place where they wanna work? Are they in a place where they wanna promote? Because you never know. And sometimes it says more about it's not about you. If you meet your hero and they're not in a good place, sometimes they're bad guys. Sometimes they're assholes. Sometimes they're jerks. And sometimes they will not disappoint you. I had one experience with the same guy, and I I still can't believe it. The legendary sportscaster and former college basketball coach Dick Vitale was in Indianapolis, Indiana when I was a high school senior. And I was at event for the final four as a guest with my dad. And there's Dick Vitale, and he's standing someplace with a guy. And I walk up to him, and I introduce myself. And I said, mister Vitale, a big fan of yours. I'm hoping to go into sports casting. Takes his finger, flicks me in the chest. He says, that's great, kid. Turns his back on me. I'm like, wow. That's cold. And you're just you're just standing there feeling slightly stupid. Like, wow, I can't believe that. Fast forward two or three years later, I'm in Lawrence, Kansas at the University of Kansas where I was an undergraduate. And there's Dick Vitale doing crowd work. Blows me off. Now, at this point, I'm used to it. I'm like, okay, twice. Fast forward again. Now let's go to 2012 or 2011. I am in my current job as a columnist at Fort the Worth Star Telegram. I've been in the media game now for however many years, fifteen plus years. And there's Dick Vitale at an event where he is the featured guest, where media members have been invited, encouraged to come talk to Dick Vitale to promote whatever he's promoting and the final four, which is in Arlington, Texas that week. And I ask him about this because I'm gonna write about this experience of having met him and understanding now and imploring on people to understand when you meet these guys, try to give them a little bit of grace sometimes because they're very busy and you just you just don't know. And to judge a person on a thirty second or a fifty second clip is is tough. So I'm interviewing him and I'm I'm asking him and I can tell he doesn't quite get it. He's so in entertainment mode, he's kind of missing the question. And I go at him with it twice. So then I write the column explaining the whole thing that I just explained here, where I'd met him previously, blown me off, I met him this time. And he just didn't quite get it. But I was basically saying, give these guys a break a little bit if you can. So about two weeks later, three weeks later, I go see my boss in her office and she says, somebody has sent something to you. I said, what is it? She said, I don't think it's a book. So I open it up and it is Dick Vitale's book. He has written a book on, I don't know, college basketball or something. I said, here. I tell my boss, the late Celeste Williams, I said, here's Celeste, put it in the pile. You can sell it as part of the, we do a, we did a fundraiser all the time. We would sell that stuff and take the money and give it to charity. And she said, no. Look at it. And I opened the front cover and there is a very long inscription as well as a handwritten letter from Dick to me apologizing for his behaviors to me when I was in high school and in college. No, I didn't need that. By that point, I understood what had happened when I was younger. But the fact that he took the time to do that will always mean a lot to me. And I understand why he did it. And I had written him out. I'd I'd written about it. But nonetheless, it was a very kind gesture on his part to do it. And and something it's back in my closet someplace. It's it's something that I still very much cherish to this day. And so when you meet these guys sometimes, they they can also surprise you with their own humility. And there's a few of these other ones I wanna share because somebody's asked me that before, like, who are your favorite interviews? And one of them was doctor Bob Ballard. Doctor Bob Ballard is the oceanographer who discovered the Titanic when I was in middle school, and what myself and millions of other kids were fascinated at the story of the Titanic. We couldn't get enough of it. About ten, fifteen years ago, he was in Arlington, Texas to give a speech. And I called ahead of time and I said, can I interview him? He was great. Had him on the phone for about thirty minutes. I could have had him on the phone for one hundred and thirty minutes and it wouldn't have been enough. Another one too, this one's a little bit obscure, somebody I looked up to a great deal is a man named Doctor. Jeffrey Weigand. Now you may not know Doctor. Jeffrey Weigand's name, but you know his work because Jeff Weigand was the whistleblower against the big tobacco companies that led to enormous changes and costs to the American tobacco industry. And they made a movie about his life and that specific story starring Russell Crowe and Al Pacino called the insider. And I chased doctor Weigand for probably eighteen months before he agreed to an interview. When I say before he agreed to an interview, just the timing didn't work. He didn't live in Texas. Eventually, he was in town. He said, Yeah. Okay. I'll do it. Picked him up in my car, went to a Starbucks. We talked for an hour. It couldn't have been nicer. We've had a nice relationship since. That doesn't always happen. And it did. It happened because I was very persistent with it. And I think we got along and we hit it off. But of all these different experiences that I've had, and I know I'm missing a bunch. The one thing that I've learned, especially when it comes to entertainment media, is that when you get these people, a lot of times their attitude, their mood, their persona depends on what the medium they're being interviewed by. Kevin Hart, the great Kevin Hart, was in DFW a few years ago to promote a new movie. And they said, do you wanna talk to him? I'm like, yeah. Kidding, Kevin Hart? Absolutely. I wanna talk to Kevin Hart. So this is how it goes. That morning, they take him to a local school in Dallas and the TV crews are there, and he is on. He is electric. He's Kevin Hart. He's funny. Blah blah blah. He's going a mile a minute, and he's hysterical. Then they take him to local radio shows where he's on eight to ten minutes. And again, bang. He's on. He's up. He's funny. He is entertaining. So now it's noon, and I'm in a hotel room, hotel suite in Dallas, and my slot is twelve to 12:15. And there's something I learned about entertainment interviews is when they say twelve to 12:15, it is twelve to 12:15 and you are out at 12:15. So I'm standing in the room with my tools of the trade. Door opens. There's like three or four handlers. There's Kevin Hart. He looks up at me. And he's on the phone at the time. He walks in. I shake his hand. It's very nice to meet you. He said, hey, would you mind if I get some lunch? I'm starving. I haven't eaten all day. I said, no. Absolutely not. So it's me. It's Kevin Hart, and there's a publicist over there playing on his phone. Just keeping track. Have a great interview. Great interview. Near the end of it, I can look out of the corner of my eye, can I see the publicity puts up a one, meaning that's the last question or you're on your final minute? That's how exact they are about this. But in that time, and I've got all my questions prepared, I am expecting Kevin Hart to kill it, to come up with a Kevin Hart one liner, to come up with a Kevin Hart zinger. Nothing. And it's because I didn't have a camera on him. It's because I didn't have a microphone necessarily in front of him. So he's just, he and I are just talking and we had a really nice interview. In fact, at the end of it, I said, where does this interview rank and all the interviews you've ever done? He said, oh, this was the best. It's very charming. But I it was one of those deals where I wasn't disappointed by Kevin Hart and how he treated me. He's very professional. He's very nice, kind, but he wasn't entertaining. He wasn't up. And that's what I needed him to be. So it's that weird mix of how was meeting Kevin Hart? It's great. Was he funny? Nope. Even to this day, that's a really odd thing to say. I got to meet Kevin Hart and chatted with him for fifteen minutes, and he didn't didn't he didn't make me laugh. There have been other ones like that, but that gives you an idea. There's some other ones on here that I won't gosh. Somebody said, is there anybody out there that you really want an interview that you haven't? And the one that I really want is Harrison Ford, and I'll probably never get that one. God knows I tried. I tried, but I never got him. But anyways, I want to talk to you a little bit more about I want to share with you the specifics of my Stewart Copeland visit, right after this. Hello. It's Mike Reiner of Your Dark Companion here. Let me ask you. Are you looking for something to fill the long dead air hours of your day? Well, join the Sunset Lounge DFW and Your Dark Companion on patreon.com, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. Replace those sad, slow hours with sports, pop culture, and music woven into interesting conversations. So step inside the green door, have a seat at the bar, and get in the groove with those shows and so very much more. Okay. So before I share these these couple of clips with Stuart Copeland, this is what I I wanna I wanna preface it by saying I'm not gonna share the entire interview. The interview was done for the Fort Worth Star Telegram, and I will share that within the next, like I said, ten days or so. Parts of this, I felt like I could share with you all because there's a backstory here and Stuart was my guy. And as I sat there and thought about when I was going to have this conversation with him was one, it was gonna be on Zoom, but was it gonna be audio only? Because that happens sometimes. When I had a chance to interview Johnny Resnick, the lead singer of the Goo Goo Dolls, that was done via Zoom, but it was audio only. So I didn't you know, that that's a totally that's like a phone call, basically. And this one, I didn't have any idea what it was gonna be. And then he popped up on the screen. And as you can see here momentarily, I decided to take a different tack. Oh. Yeah. Are you in I can't find the record button. No. Are you in are you in California, I'm assuming? I am. All right. So before I begin with this, I'm going to ask you something that I normally don't do. Do you want the compliment portion of this interview on the front end or the back end? I would actually prefer it if you sprinkled it liberally throughout the conversation just to keep my dander up, you know, because I require constant, constant affirmation. So you were my band when I was in grade school. This is a good start? This is a good yeah. It gets better. There's a better punchline. So I had always wanted to see you all tour, and you broke up famously, when I was in fifth grade. And I always swore to god, boy, if if they ever reunite, I'm gonna go anywhere on the earth to go see him. And my oldest brother said, well, I'm sorry, and he loved you, and he introduced me to to you all you specifically. He said, man, that's not gonna happen. So when you did reunite in 2007, I went and saw you twice. I went and saw you in Philadelphia, and it was one of the great joys of my concert going life. Oh, good. Oh, it was great. And I always I always swore to myself if I was ever in this position to thank you for doing that, that I would do it. That that night, those nights, your work gave me so much joy, and it mattered so much to not just me, but to so many other people. And I wanted to thank you for that because I am sure you've had moments where people have thanked you, but like anybody else, well, did this matter? Yes. It mattered. It mattered a great deal to so many of us, me included. So I always wanted to say thank you. I've Well, couple things. First of all, you're welcome. Yeah. Of all, this conversation is going really well. Well, so I've so I before my interviews, usually without fail, especially somebody like that, I write down a long list of questions. And my hope is to get to all of them. And if the person is delivering short answers, then I better have a bunch of questions prepared. If they go on and on and on and on, well, then I'm kind of screwed. And as a, just a side note, 2020, I interviewed Andrew Dice Clay. I had 20 questions prepared. His first answer took seven minutes. I had a ten minute block. I'm like, I'm not gonna get to anything. Ten minutes came up and I said, Hey, I really appreciate your time. I know you only had ten minutes. He said, no, no, no, you're fine. Keep going. And I think we talked for seventy minutes. He was great. That was a great interview. This interview with Stuart Copeland did not go seventy minutes. One, because it was on Zoom and the Zoom block that I had reserved was only for forty minutes, which was just as well. I originally had said, yeah, I'll lead you to ten ten minutes. Like you always say ten to fifteen minutes. When in reality, you always push it longer than you than you think or longer than maybe they they signed up for. But there was one question in this. I'm gonna play it because it it needs sound. There was one question in there that I don't think anybody I had never heard asked of Stuart, and this was something that I kind of think surprised him, but he had a great time with it. Got a whole bunch. I've done my homework. You'd be glad to know. Okay. Good. Good. There's no math. There's no social studies. You your resume is 10 miles long as a musician. Stuart, can you sing? I can sing unto the heavens with great soul and passion. In fact, I have to write my operas by singing them, even the ladies part. Wow. See? I don't think anyone would buy that record, but I can hit a tune. Okay. That's all really matters. So I think as you can see by now, I'm really enjoying myself with this conversation with him, and I ended it like this. I could have done this all day. I took way too much of your time, but one of my tricks is I only need five minutes and then just go forever. Well, as as as the the tour is aptly named, have I said too much? Nope. Most likely. Nope. Not at all. I have given you my money, over the years, all of my time. I have memorized all of the songs. You're not getting it back. It's fine with me. There there was a good solid ROI. I've got a poster in there, and I will very likely be, at your event, in Dallas next month. By the way, Dallas Fort Worth area is my town. Fort Worth, they performed my first opera back in 1990, only playing Crescent Moon. They, back there, I played with the Dallas Symphony. They played my Gamalan concerto, burned down the house, the Dallas Symphony. They commissioned a piece for Gamalan, long story, it's Indonesian bells and classic western symphony. And I was back there not so long ago with SMU playing the police derange for orchestra show. So, that's my town over there. Well, I thank you so much. This meant so much to me. Even though there's two towns over there that are my town. I know. But I I I could probably gush for another day and tune in turn into a, you know, fawning schoolgirl, but I wanna thank you so much, Stuart. I've been such a fan of you and Oh, shocks. For for a long time. And normally, I I kinda kinda keep it together, but I I am definitely starstruck, and I can't thank you enough for your time. You you gave me a ton of it, and I look forward to all your work moving forward, and I certainly will make in every effort. And I plan to be there at the Kessler next month. Very cool. Take care now. Thanks, Stuart. Thanks for listening. No. Thank you. So the moral of the story is if you get an opportunity to meet your hero, I probably did a little too much gushing in this interview. I'm not embarrassed by it. But it's something that I learned the hard way that if you get an opportunity to meet your hero or meet somebody that you respect, tell them that. You don't have to go on and on. Share with them an anecdote. It changes the mood. It's a good icebreaker. It's going to alter how they may deal with you. It may affect if they've got their guard up a little bit. It may change a little bit. And it's a way for you to express yourself about somebody that you have a lot of appreciation for. I'm a big fan of the police, big fan of Stuart Copeland, big fan of staying, big fan of Andy Summers. And the opportunity to talk to Stuart Copeland was a great professional thrill. And it allows me to say that sometimes, and I think more often than not, it's perfectly okay to meet your hero. See you next time. This is a Stolen Water Media production.